posted 05-13-2018 12:23 AM               

It's an interesting situation, with a definite lack of consistency (if nothing else).

With that, I have one question: when Crippen does an actual sit down signing (as he does somewhat rarely) where he's signing a constant stream of items with little to no break in between, what do the signatures on the last items look like?

I ask because I have a theory that these types of looser, slower signatures are the result of signature degradation as he powers through multiple items in one sitting, which would explain in the inconsistencies.

But, at the same time, when it's brought up, it's generally discussed as though it's expected to be a constant, and nobody makes that point or asks that question. It seems to always be "He didn't sign like that for me when I got him recently" vs "He's getting up there in age and that's what one would expect his signature to look like as he gets older," never "Maybe the more classic looking signatures come off the top of the stack, while the others come off the bottom." As such, I have to assume there's a reason — presumably that everyone already knows what the bottom of the stack looks like.

So, for my edification, does anyone have an example of a recent in person "bottom of the stack" signature to compare with this "alternative" style?

posted 05-13-2018 04:29 AM               

I also have a number of models signed by him with the most recent one being a Saturn V rocket signed at our Astronaut dinner less then 1 years ago and all look like his normal signature.( I will also speculate that a round rocket is harder to sign then a much flatter payload bay door )

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l6iyh4z5q5mxh7s/IMG_1265.JPG?dl=0

This is the reason i broached the question of authenticity on this item as to me ( and I am not an expert ) This looks like a forced and poor attempt to copy his signature. But I usually trust the opinions of the Collect Space Community as there is a combined knowledge base that exceeds any one person or single opinion.

posted 05-13-2018 10:00 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Rick Mulheirn:
For the vast majority the signatures have been very consistent from beginning to end.

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But when this topic comes up, as you can see in the linked thread and others, the word "arthritis" is a favorite of speculators.

If that were the case, and one were to try to "power through," consistency would go out the window pretty fast.

quote:

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Originally posted by Chuckster01:
I have never seen this shaky broken stop and start signature on any item I have seen him sign and as I did not start at the museum until early 2014 many of my items have been signed in the last 4 years well after the thread mentioned above.

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But, again, I can't say I've seen what the last signature he signs looks like after powering through a huge stack.

The reason I keep mentioning this is two-fold:

1. These signatures mostly turn up on mail requests, where we don't know how many are being signed at one time or what was done before/after they were signed

2. When I wrote Bob Crippen, I sent two pictures that he graciously signed for me (for personal reasons, I won't post them here). Both look like they were signed by the same person who signed your rocket model.

Since they were sent in the same envelope, requested in the same letter, and signed with the same pen, I have to presume they were signed in succession. The inscriptions are in the same handwriting.

On both, the tail of the "i" in "Crippen" doesn't connect with the "p". But on the more jagged one, the first "p" is completely disconnected, whereas, on the smoother one, the "p"s connect.

As I mentioned, I won't post the full item for personal reasons, but I will post these to give you an idea of what I'm talking about when I say "smooth" vs "jagged":

You can see there are distinct differences in formation between the two. (Ignore the pixelation; it's the result of the extreme closeup of the relatively low res scan.)

For comparison, and to further muddy the waters, here's a shot that I picked up off eBay that I presume was likely a through-the-mail signature:

posted 05-13-2018 10:22 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Rick Mulheirn:
The only real exception was Mark Kelly...

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posted 05-13-2018 04:10 PM               

As the model does not give a location time or event it was signed at many assumptions have been made in this thread.

Does Bob Crippen have arthritis or any other ailment or are you assuming? Was this signed at the end of an event or are you again assuming?

No matter what the letter formations may be or what letter connect, the start and stops on this do not look to me like any Crippen signature I have seen.

This is the shuttle signature up close.

posted 05-13-2018 05:56 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Chuckster01:
Does Bob Crippen have arthritis or any other ailment or are you assuming?

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quote:

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Was this signed at the end of an event or are you again assuming?

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If you want to know what I think of the shuttle piece, I'll tell you: personally, I think it looks like what I'd expect the signature of the person who signed this or this to look like if they were signing a small signature on a 3D item with a fat marker.

To me, it looks perfectly typical of the lowest level signatures that I've seen over the years of that particular style. It's not pretty, but I'm not seeing anything in it that causes me to doubt it beyond the standard levels of doubt given to that particular style of signature.

quote:

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...this is what you do not want to see in any autograph.

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This is where the connecting/not connecting letters point that you dismissed comes into play. Failing to connect letters that one otherwise connects is the most obvious, surest sign that the signer's pen stopped moving.

The signature styles in question have shown that whomever signs these, in the best conditions, is wildly inconsistent with the flow of their signature. Sometimes they flow from letter to letter, other times they stop and pick up the pen 3+ times in the "Crippen".

Making it worse, that inconsistency doesn't define itself along the lines of whether or not the signature is smooth or jagged. There are shaky signatures where the pen still moves from letter to letter, and there are nicely flowing signatures where it doesn't.

posted 05-14-2018 12:08 AM            

He could not sign on a flat table but had to hold it in the air, and yet still jagged and shorter from just years earlier.

posted 05-14-2018 07:58 AM               

For instance, Charlie Duke still signs photos smoothly all day long with little, if any, signature degradation.