Author
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Topic: Apollo 17 flown flag and patch display value
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MIsterTrunk Member Posts: 73 From: Moscow, Russia- Benidorm, Spain Registered: Feb 2015
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posted 04-09-2018 05:28 AM
I'm looking for the opinions regarding the value and rarity of Apollo 17 crew signed display that also includes USSR flag and patch flown to the moon. The display was presented to the Soviet Ambassador to US. Thank you. |
Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 51679 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 04-09-2018 07:38 AM
What is the provenance behind of this display? |
MIsterTrunk Member Posts: 73 From: Moscow, Russia- Benidorm, Spain Registered: Feb 2015
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posted 04-09-2018 07:58 AM
The display came directly from the ambassador Anatoly Dobrynin family. They have recently sold some items (mainly politics related) from his archive at local Russian auction houses. Some space autographs were: William A. Anders and Soyuz-Apollo... |
Greggy_D Member Posts: 1008 From: Michigan Registered: Jul 2006
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posted 04-09-2018 09:43 AM
It appears the Apollo 17 and ASTP inscriptions are written in the same hand. The first name is spelled differently in each. "Ambassor" is used in the Apollo 17 piece. Both inscriptions slope upward as you travel left to right. |
MIsterTrunk Member Posts: 73 From: Moscow, Russia- Benidorm, Spain Registered: Feb 2015
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posted 04-09-2018 10:21 AM
Dobrynin worked as the ambassador to US from 1962 to 1986, so it's quite possible that both inscriptions were made by the same secretary in the 70s... |
David Carey Member Posts: 1012 From: Registered: Mar 2009
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posted 04-09-2018 11:42 AM
Don't know about value, rarity, or other sigs but the Schmitt signature seems way off to me. |
Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 51679 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 04-09-2018 11:59 AM
The Schmitt signature is what prompted me to ask about provenance as well. It just looks off.I also don't recall seeing a flown Beta cloth presentation where the patch was trimmed such that it was circular. That is, I am assuming the patch is Beta cloth. Can you confirm? I'm not suggesting the display in not authentic, especially if it came directly from the ambassador's estate. It just is notably different from other presentations. I do find it a bit odd though, that they would misspell ambassador and still present it as is. |
MIsterTrunk Member Posts: 73 From: Moscow, Russia- Benidorm, Spain Registered: Feb 2015
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posted 04-09-2018 12:25 PM
I'm not the owner of the display — I will try to get more information about the patch. I googled "Ambassor" and I found many articles using this word. Is it really misspelled or is it used as the short for the "ambassador" in US?I agree the display isn't common, so I'm trying to get as much opinions as possible. I also found a video interview with Dobrynin taken at his home in 2009, and the display can be seen on the wall. |
Steve Zarelli Member Posts: 747 From: Upstate New York, USA Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 04-09-2018 12:32 PM
In my opinion, all three signatures are not authentic. Assuming the display itself is authentic, I believe this was likely proxy signed by the "artist" in the PAO. |
MIsterTrunk Member Posts: 73 From: Moscow, Russia- Benidorm, Spain Registered: Feb 2015
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posted 04-09-2018 12:50 PM
Thanks, Steve. So if the signatures are not authentic, I consider the value of the whole display isn't very high because it's likely impossible to confirm that the flag and patch were actually flown. |
Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 51679 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 04-09-2018 01:06 PM
quote: Originally posted by MIsterTrunk: Is it really misspelled or is it used as the short for the "ambassador" in US?
The accepted abbreviation for ambassador is amb. I do see the search results, but they appear to be misspellings. |
Guswastheman Member Posts: 158 From: Gresham, OR Registered: Apr 2011
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posted 04-09-2018 01:33 PM
I have overlays for autopen and authentic astronaut signatures, if you can email me the autographs at actual size, I can confirm authenticity for you. |
Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 51679 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 04-09-2018 01:39 PM
I don't think overlays will help in this situation. They are not autopen signatures.I believe Steve is correct about these being proxy signatures (which is odd unto itself, given the recipient). |
Ken Havekotte Member Posts: 3761 From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 04-09-2018 03:10 PM
By all means, as Steve has pointed out, all three crewmen signatures are not authentic in my opinion as well. The Cernan and Schmitt are not close, and somewhat with the Evans too. Rather the Russian flag and Beta patch were flown is another issue altogether. |
jtheoret Member Posts: 400 From: Albuquerque, NM USA Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 04-09-2018 09:09 PM
quote: Originally posted by Guswastheman: I have overlays for autopen and authentic astronaut signatures...
Overlays wouldn't be any help with determining authenticity whether they were autopens or not (and even for autopens, there can be variations such that an overlay may not be any help). Certainly overlays of even authentic signatures wouldn't account for normal variations in signing. Clearly as has been indicated, these are neither autopen nor genuine signatures. There is no substitute for careful study and a trained eye. |