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  183030865124: Aldrin checklist bag lucite

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Author Topic:   183030865124: Aldrin checklist bag lucite
pharoid
Member

Posts: 98
From:
Registered: Jul 2010

posted 01-22-2018 01:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pharoid   Click Here to Email pharoid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Does anyone have any info on this Apollo 11 Buzz Aldrin checklist bag swatch as to how many were made and who made them? Thank you all.

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 38739
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 01-22-2018 01:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am waiting on more information, but I have questions about its authenticity.

To my knowledge, the three Apollo 11 astronauts did not retain any of their spacesuit equipment, turning everything over to the Smithsonian (including the patches from their suits, which other crews kept).

Also, the embedded letter appears to have a line for a signature, but no autograph.

That said, the seller seems to be just offering for sale a large collection (despite the coincidental username) and may be no more knowledgeable about the item than she describes.

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 38739
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 01-22-2018 04:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In September 2007, Heritage Auctions sold a Beta cloth bag from the collection of Buzz Aldrin that was described as:
This was the bag in which Dr. Aldrin carried various items such as checklists.
Peachstate Historical Consulting (David Frohman) also identifies having owned Buzz Aldrin's Lunar Module Checklist Bag.
Worn by Aldrin aboard the Lunar Module "Eagle."
Both of these, could in theory, be sources for the material in the lucite, though that raises more questions (e.g. did someone really take a scissor to a complete Apollo 11-flown artifact?).

rgarner
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Posts: 1026
From: Shepperton, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012

posted 01-22-2018 04:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rgarner   Click Here to Email rgarner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think it unlikely that it would have been cut up, we would have seen more between now and then. I certainly hope I am right.

spaced out
Member

Posts: 2993
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 01-23-2018 01:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The wording of the encased description explicitly states that it's from the lower right leg checklist bag. If that was really cut into pieces for resale that would be one of the worst examples of destruction of an intact artifact we've ever seen.

In theory this could have been a Peachstate product produced after the complete intact artifact failed to sell but I would have thought we'd have seen more examples before now.

In any case the unsigned letter itself is somewhat suspicious. It also refers to a cube of lucite, which this clearly isn't, although that could have been a change made after the letter was produced.

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 38739
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 01-24-2018 08:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The seller ended the original listing and has relisted it with a revised description:
OH HECK NO! It wasn't flown. But you can amaze your civilian friends with the WHATTHEHELL? I found this week.

A piece of beta cloth is mounted in a descriptive Lucite display which reads, in part: "The small swatch of fabric contained in this Lucite cube is made from beta cloth ... the swatch came from my checklist bag worn by me aboard the Apollo 11 Lunar Module. The checklist bag was used to carry important navigational charts and other items necessary to get us to the moon..." This piece is a mock up of a proposed memorabilia item; hence, the lack of signature.

Despite indications, the beta cloth contained in this piece has not been flown.

This was purchased from the personal collection of Buzz Aldrin.

spaced out
Member

Posts: 2993
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 01-24-2018 10:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Still leaves a lot of questions in terms of the fate of the actual checklist bag, since Peachstate never really indicated if it was sold or not.

This updated description would imply that at one stage Aldrin (and/or Peachstate) was preparing to cut it up for lucites but maybe it was finally sold intact, or maybe he reconsidered and still has it.

Larry McGlynn
Member

Posts: 1099
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 01-24-2018 11:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Larry McGlynn   Click Here to Email Larry McGlynn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I know the owner of the Aldrin PPK bag sold by Peachstate. He has had since the early 2000's. Buzz signed it, signed a COA for it and was photographed with it. It is in safe hands.

spaced out
Member

Posts: 2993
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 01-24-2018 12:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good to hear Larry.

rgarner
Member

Posts: 1026
From: Shepperton, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012

posted 01-24-2018 04:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rgarner   Click Here to Email rgarner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This was purchased from the personal collection of Buzz Aldrin.
Well then, this simply cannot be true. The seller should remove the listing and destroy the item.

thisismills
Member

Posts: 93
From: Michigan
Registered: Mar 2012

posted 01-25-2018 02:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for thisismills   Click Here to Email thisismills     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If the seller cannot be convinced to do away with the sale on their own volition, I certainly think it would be noble for someone in the community to purchase it if only to prevent a future nefarious sale (either perpetrated knowingly or not). Unfortunately this method places some value to a false or misleading item. Typically I think we just arm ourselves with knowledge and stay away from a purchase, as so many sketchy items pop up on eBay.

As this is an issue that certainly isn't limited to our community of collecting, is it common for items to be destroyed when known not to be genuine? Or is there an understood place for knowingly collecting these types of things to display, teach, and learn from?

I can think of a few famous forgers that have an established following but don't necessarily feel that this item in question falls into that same area.

SpaceAholic
Member

Posts: 4090
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 01-25-2018 02:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpaceAholic   Click Here to Email SpaceAholic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by thisismills:
Unfortunately this method places some value to a false or misleading item.

Also places value on the distasteful practice of destroying otherwise intact artifacts.

Chuckster01
Member

Posts: 513
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: Jan 2014

posted 01-25-2018 04:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Chuckster01   Click Here to Email Chuckster01     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by thisismills:
...if only to prevent a future nefarious sale
You are assuming that there is not another one waiting to be sold. Fakes have a way of multiplying.

denali414
Member

Posts: 158
From: Raleigh, NC USA
Registered: Aug 2017

posted 01-25-2018 05:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for denali414   Click Here to Email denali414     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Unless I'm missing something, isn't this just like a "salesman sample"?

It's a "mock-up" of something that in the future a marketing company was going to sell (but obviously never did). Since the COA isn't signed, know its not "real," but just a mockup. As long as sold that way, don't see a problem.

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