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Author
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Topic: Lousma's crew-signed Skylab 3 Wives covers
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kosmo
Member Posts: 452
From:
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted 03-01-2017 09:34 AM
  
Maybe someone can shed some light on Jack Lousma's crew-signed Skylab 3 Wives covers for me. Currently in a Lunar Legacies auction (Lot 490) there is a no. 6 wives and crew signed cover. On Oct. 29, 2016, in a U.S. Space Walk of Fame Museum Charity Space Memorabilia fundraising auction (Lot 154), I won similar cover, also no. 6 and according to the description, "This is number 6 of 8 and the last one in Jack's collection." So am I missing something here? |
Chuckster01
Member Posts: 1035
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: Jan 2014
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posted 03-01-2017 03:29 PM
My description of the Jack Lousma cover was straight from Jack Lousma himself. I will be happy to e-mail Jack and see if we can get an answer on this. |
kosmo
Member Posts: 452
From:
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted 03-01-2017 04:10 PM
That would be great. I realize that the Lunar Legacies cover could have been acquired before the U.S. Space Walk of Fame Museum auction, what I don't understand is the multiple no. 6s. This was also described as "number 6 of 8," which also doesn't make any sense.Maybe Donnis could shed a little light on this also. |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 3225
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 03-01-2017 04:28 PM
The numbers vary as to cancellation type, postmark location, dates of mission events, etc. Mine also have lower numbers, even a no. 2, that I got from Jacques Tiziou himself as a special gift. The issues, though, signed by the crewmen and their wives are the most scarce that crew families have. |
kosmo
Member Posts: 452
From:
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted 03-01-2017 04:49 PM
Usually, it seems, that a set of numbered envelopes, would be sequentially numbered, 1 of 50; 2 of 50; etc. So I guess my next questions would be, how may of these Skylab II wives covers exist and how many no. 6s are there? |
Chuckster01
Member Posts: 1035
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: Jan 2014
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posted 03-01-2017 04:57 PM
As I also have one of the Wives covers from Lousma, it would seem they are all numbered 6. That being said Jack did tell me he only had eight covers signed by both the crew and the wives. He said he has a lot signed by the wives only but no one seems to want those. E-mail has been sent so depending on where he is in the world reply times very. |
kosmo
Member Posts: 452
From:
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted 03-01-2017 05:28 PM
Could you post a photo of your number 6 cover? |
kosmo
Member Posts: 452
From:
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted 03-03-2017 07:24 PM
I'm a little curious as to why my Skylab wives cover didn't come with a letter of authenticity like the one in the Lunar Legacies auction. |
Chuckster01
Member Posts: 1035
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: Jan 2014
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posted 03-04-2017 02:58 PM
Kosmo, would you please e-mail me privately? |
Chuckster01
Member Posts: 1035
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: Jan 2014
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posted 03-05-2017 02:32 PM
Here is the response from Jack Lousma: The signed envelope I sent with the wives' patch is one of a larger set, all labelled as 000006. Apparently, the number refers to the similarity of the items in the set rather than a single number for each item in the set, as is done with duplicates of a painting, for example.
It turns out that I had five or six wives' patch envelopes labelled with the 000006 identification. Some of them were even mailed from different Post Offices. At least two of them were personally signed by all crew members and their wives, of which SWoF has one. Don Willis also has one of those for his auction. Three of the five or six numbered 000006 are signed by wives only, no crew members signed, so they are effectively without much value for auction, and I will retain them.
So, it appears the 000006 is not a serial number and has no particular meaning except that all envelopes with that number are from the same set. I hope this helps. |
cosmos-walter
Member Posts: 719
From: Salzburg, Austria
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 03-05-2017 03:27 PM
Take this patch and the covers as piece of art. Perhaps the artist chose the number 000006 since 6 is a very erotic number matching to the astronauts' wifes. |
kosmo
Member Posts: 452
From:
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted 03-05-2017 04:09 PM
That's interesting. Based on a message from Jacques Tiziou, dated Aug. 23, 1973 (see photo) on the subject of "SL-3 Wives' patch envelopes" there was "3 series of 40 envelopes were cancelled (3 different stamps)," which would suggest 120 envelopes. It also goes on to say "N 6 and 12 went to the Jack Lousma family." So did three number 6s and three number 12s actually go to the family? Ken Havekotte mentions having no. 2 coming from "Jacques Tiziou himself," but the Tiziou message says "2 and 8 went to Ardis Settle." The message seems to talk about an envelope number singularly as to its distribution, but clearly mentions the number of envelopes in the plural, "3 series of 40." This message also says, "A complete list of 'who has what" will be available later.'" It would be nice to see this list if it exists. Very confusing.  |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 3225
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 03-05-2017 05:58 PM
That's the listing from Tiziou that I have not been able to locate. He also did an inventory like this for the cloth patches as well, which I do have a copy of.My special two wives sticker-cachet covers were not signed by the crew, but rather inscribed to me in a special way; one for launch and the other for splashdown. I can't recall if all the covers listed here were in fact crew/wives' signed. |
Chuckster01
Member Posts: 1035
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: Jan 2014
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posted 03-05-2017 06:08 PM
According to Jack Lousma only a few covers where signed by both crew and wives. |
kosmo
Member Posts: 452
From:
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted 03-05-2017 08:37 PM
Anyone know the significance of a Merritt Island FL Aug. 25 1973 postal cancellation on one of these crew/wife signed Skylab wives covers? |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 3225
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 03-05-2017 10:59 PM
As mentioned in my first post here, those #10 signed covers of both the crewmen and wives are "the most scarce the crew families have."Tiziou had a rather complex system of numbering the covers (mostly not signed as I now see from my notes) as their postmark type, event, postage stamps used, etc. were all a factor in how many covers were produced. The event referred to above by kosmos was for the second EVA spacewalks by Lousma and Garriott (Aug. 24-25, 1973) lasting about 4 hours and 31 minutes. |
kosmo
Member Posts: 452
From:
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted 03-06-2017 08:52 AM
To answer my original question, while disappointing, there is a Lunar Legacies LOA on the Lousma crew signed Skylab 3 wives cover dated Feb. 18, 2017. This makes it look like the Oct. 29, 2016, in a U.S. Space Walk of Fame Museum Charity Space Memorabilia fundraising auction item description "the last one in Jack's collection" was done to jack up the bidding. |
kosmo
Member Posts: 452
From:
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted 03-06-2017 12:13 PM
Just to be clear, on my last post, the LOA is from Jack Lousma, not Lunar Legacies. |
kosmo
Member Posts: 452
From:
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted 05-03-2021 10:46 AM
This is obviously not the last one in his collection, another one was sold on March 11, 2017. Would be nice to see what’s going on?And there is more than one number 6! |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 3225
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 05-03-2021 12:10 PM
For sure, the crew and wives' together signed #10 covers are indeed the most scarce of the series.The red numbers at the bottom of each #10 crew cover refer to the number of issued covers for that particular evet being commemorated, which could even include different types of launch-day site cancels, EVAs, record breaking events, splashdown, and more. Keep in mind though the majority, if not all, of those non-launch cancelled covers were not crew-signed. If I recall, the SL-3 crew only got their limited personal numbered decal sticker covers from Tiziou that had been signed after the mission from both the crew and wives. The cover referred to by kosmo could had very well been one of the last issues that the Lousma family owned if crew signed. The other decal covers for non-launch events were not controlled nor distributed by the crewmen, but rather by Tiziou himself. |
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