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Author Topic:   Help with inherited space cover collection
WileECoyoteIT
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Posts: 60
From: Italy
Registered: Jul 2016

posted 07-29-2016 04:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for WileECoyoteIT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've received as a present from my uncle, his space stamps and covers collection. He has collected them trough many years but, as he says, in an absolutely not "professional" way.

I'd like to share them with you to have some hints on their "content."

This is the first one, a Shuttle SRB Drop Test Cover. Any hints on who signed the cover? Could be Ray Young, Fitz Fulton and?

yeknom-ecaps
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Posts: 660
From: Northville MI USA
Registered: Aug 2005

posted 07-29-2016 04:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yeknom-ecaps   Click Here to Email yeknom-ecaps     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Correct, NB-52B crew signatures - Ray Young (launch panel operator), Fitz Fulton (pilot), and Don Mallick (pilot)

WileECoyoteIT
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From: Italy
Registered: Jul 2016

posted 07-29-2016 04:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for WileECoyoteIT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks, I missed the third one.

Suppose they could be considered authentic signatures correct?

WileECoyoteIT
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From: Italy
Registered: Jul 2016

posted 07-29-2016 04:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for WileECoyoteIT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Second Cover: STS-3 White Sands: Fullerton and Lousma authentic signatures?

Ken Havekotte
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From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 07-29-2016 04:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, they look fine.

WileECoyoteIT
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Posts: 60
From: Italy
Registered: Jul 2016

posted 07-29-2016 04:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for WileECoyoteIT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks! Cover 3: STS-55 full (?) crew signatures. Could be ok?

yeknom-ecaps
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From: Northville MI USA
Registered: Aug 2005

posted 07-29-2016 04:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yeknom-ecaps   Click Here to Email yeknom-ecaps     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes SRB cover signatures are authentic, STS-55 is full crew and looks okay too...

Wikipedia has list of all shuttle crew members you can check covers against to see if full crew or not.

WileECoyoteIT
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Posts: 60
From: Italy
Registered: Jul 2016

posted 07-29-2016 04:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for WileECoyoteIT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the really kind support. I've searched but sometimes I cannot map the astronaut name to the "signature."

Cover 4: Skylab 4 (Carr, Gibson, Pogue). Looks okay?

yeknom-ecaps
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From: Northville MI USA
Registered: Aug 2005

posted 07-29-2016 04:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yeknom-ecaps   Click Here to Email yeknom-ecaps     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Look okay — you can first check to see if signatures are machine written autopens at astroautopens.com or here.

WileECoyoteIT
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Posts: 60
From: Italy
Registered: Jul 2016

posted 07-29-2016 05:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for WileECoyoteIT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks, I was quite confident on these signatures. But now comes the hard part for the east side.

Cover 5: Vostok 6 - Tereshkova:

Mike_The_First
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From: USA
Registered: Jun 2014

posted 07-29-2016 05:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mike_The_First   Click Here to Email Mike_The_First     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't know how many you have, but it'd probably be easier for everyone to just have one post with all of them in it so people can just scroll through then give their thoughts and opinions without turning this into a huge back and forth.

WileECoyoteIT
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Posts: 60
From: Italy
Registered: Jul 2016

posted 07-29-2016 05:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for WileECoyoteIT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sure, didn't knew which would be the correct way of doing this. Will proceed in this way. Thanks!

WileECoyoteIT
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Posts: 60
From: Italy
Registered: Jul 2016

posted 07-29-2016 05:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for WileECoyoteIT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Cover 6: Vostok 1 - Gagarin:

Cover 7: Vostok 5 - Bikowsky:

Cover 8: Vostok 3/4 - Nikolayev, Popovic:

Cover 9: Vostok 3/4/5/6 - Nikolayev, Popovic, Bikovsky, Tereskova:

WileECoyoteIT
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From: Italy
Registered: Jul 2016

posted 07-29-2016 05:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for WileECoyoteIT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Cover 10: Soyuz 14 - Popowisch, Artjuchin:

Cover 11: Soyuz 31 - Jaehn, Bykovsky and Koellner (backup):

Cover 12: Soyuz 36 - Kubassov, Farkas:

Cover 13: Soyuz 37 - Gorbatko, Tuan (this is not the previously posted one):

WileECoyoteIT
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Posts: 60
From: Italy
Registered: Jul 2016

posted 07-29-2016 05:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for WileECoyoteIT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Cover 14: Soyuz 39 - Dzanibekov, Guraggtchaa:

Cover 15: Soyuz T11 - Malyschew, Strekalow, Sharma:

Cover 16: Soyuz TM-13 - Vieboeck, Volkov, Aubakirov:

Cover 17: Soyuz TM-14 (15?) - ??

Ken Havekotte
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From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 07-29-2016 06:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To start off with a few, and just my own opinion, it looks to be genuine signatures of the crew-signed cover from STS-55 along with the SL-4 insert card. But I do not like the Russian signatures of Tereshkova and Gagarin of Covers #5 and 6, for sure.

MIsterTrunk
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Posts: 59
From: Moscow, Russia
Registered: Feb 2015

posted 07-30-2016 05:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MIsterTrunk   Click Here to Email MIsterTrunk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Gagarin and Tereshova signed covers are not authentic.

WileECoyoteIT
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From: Italy
Registered: Jul 2016

posted 07-30-2016 06:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for WileECoyoteIT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Suspected, especially the Gagarin first letter was really strange.

What about the other Russian covers (especially the Vostok one)? Thanks.

MIsterTrunk
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From: Moscow, Russia
Registered: Feb 2015

posted 07-31-2016 04:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MIsterTrunk   Click Here to Email MIsterTrunk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Cover 7, 8 and 10 are good in my opinion. I don't like Bykovsky signature on 9 cover —  it looks slowly written to me.

Wehaveliftoff
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posted 08-12-2016 11:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wehaveliftoff     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow, I understand the Gagarin is bad, but why mess with a more common Tereshkova? Really makes this collection suspect, sorry to say.

WileECoyoteIT
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Posts: 60
From: Italy
Registered: Jul 2016

posted 08-13-2016 05:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for WileECoyoteIT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From my first post, this collection has been put together by my uncle in some years from a number of different sources.

Some could be good, some not due to the fact that he was not a professional (and this is the reason why I posted them here). In particular, Gagarin and Tereshcova covers are from the same source.

Why I should consider "this collection suspect"? It can contain good or bad things but I would not consider it "suspect"...

fredtrav
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From: Birmingham AL
Registered: Aug 2010

posted 08-13-2016 08:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for fredtrav   Click Here to Email fredtrav     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Agreed. I am sure that in my collection there lurks a bad one or ten. If it was put together over several years time, then that does not make everything suspect. A bad one is easy enough to get put in. Nice collection of stuff, enjoy it.

Chuckster01
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From: Orlando, FL
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posted 08-13-2016 10:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Chuckster01   Click Here to Email Chuckster01     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I also agree, I started collecting 30+ years ago and Ken Havekotte has already pointed out a few suspect signatures from my collection. We learn as we progress.

WileECoyoteIT
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Posts: 60
From: Italy
Registered: Jul 2016

posted 08-24-2016 06:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for WileECoyoteIT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've scanned some more items to share with you. Waiting for your kind feedback.

Soyuz 6 (Shonin, Kubasov)

Soyuz 33 (Rukavishnikov, Ivanov)

Soyuz 39 (Dzhanibekov, Gürragchaa)

Soyuz 40 (Popov, Prunariu)

eurospace
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From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 08-25-2016 04:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for eurospace   Click Here to Email eurospace     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
All four of the last posting seem fine with me.

WileECoyoteIT
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Posts: 60
From: Italy
Registered: Jul 2016

posted 08-26-2016 03:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for WileECoyoteIT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for all your kind reply. These two rises some more questions.

Soyuz T-4 (Kavalënak, Savinych): What meaning has the Salyut 6 cancel?

Soyuz T-6: Not signed. Is this a standard cover?

Soyuz TM-3 (?): This is cryptic to me. I'm not able to link the 3 (4?) signatures to an astronaut, the meaning of the arab wording and of the date on the lower left signature

Soyuz TM-13 (Viehböck, Lothaller - Backup)

Apollo-Soyuz
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posted 08-26-2016 08:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Apollo-Soyuz   Click Here to Email Apollo-Soyuz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Any Apollo-Soyuz Test Project covers in the collection? Maybe you can email me a list of any ASTP covers. I have a ASTP collection.

WileECoyoteIT
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Posts: 60
From: Italy
Registered: Jul 2016

posted 08-29-2016 02:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for WileECoyoteIT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Currently not.

Any feedback from cS friends on the above covers?

WileECoyoteIT
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Posts: 60
From: Italy
Registered: Jul 2016

posted 09-09-2016 04:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for WileECoyoteIT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Digging through the collection I've found these two covers. Any hints on if they were flown?

Soyuz 38?

Soyuz 28?

eurospace
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From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 09-10-2016 04:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for eurospace   Click Here to Email eurospace     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Soyuz T-4 (and others): these are souvenir imprints of bord cancels applied on Earth. These covers have not flown.

Soyuz TM-3: I do not speak or read Arabic, but the Arab signature in the centre is probably of the Syrian backup, Munir Habib. At least that's what I read from the cyrillic version of his signature. Still uncertain whether the Syrian prime cosmonaut, Mohammad Fares, has also signed the cover. The single letter signature above could indicate him.

eurospace
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From: Brussels, Belgium
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posted 09-10-2016 04:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for eurospace   Click Here to Email eurospace     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Soyuz 28 and 38: again, souvenir cancellations of the bord cancels. Applied on the ground, not in space.

WileECoyoteIT
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Posts: 60
From: Italy
Registered: Jul 2016

posted 09-12-2016 03:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for WileECoyoteIT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the really kind answer.

What differentiates (a part a strong documentation) a "board" cancelled cover from an "earth" cancelled cover?

eurospace
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From: Brussels, Belgium
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posted 09-13-2016 11:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for eurospace   Click Here to Email eurospace     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Telling a flown cover from an unflown cover is a large topic, so just some general considerations:
  • flown covers usually carry an octagonal board cancel confirming it was onboard the station. Souvenir covers don't.
  • sometimes the various examples of existing cancellations show small variations
  • a different letter size or type here, a different date line type there etc.
  • Flown covers are postmarked on board on certain days during the flights. By research it can be established which dates this were, and which postmarkers were used.
  • Walter Hopferwieser (here onboard) has put a lot of research into the matter of flown mail. His book "Cosmic Mail and early pioneer rocket mail" described elsewhere here on collectspace is an excellent study and can give you many pointers.
Hope this helps, — Jürgen

Neil DC
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From: Middletown, NJ, USA
Registered: May 2010

posted 09-13-2016 12:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Neil DC   Click Here to Email Neil DC     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Soyuz TM-3 cover: Does look like the back-up crew. Solvyov, Savinykh and Habib. Also looks like Savinykh started to sign upside down, then stopped and signed the right way up.

You should check the back of these envelops for autographs and cancellations too.

WileECoyoteIT
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Posts: 60
From: Italy
Registered: Jul 2016

posted 09-14-2016 05:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for WileECoyoteIT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jürgen, thanks a lot for your complete answer. I will surely buy the proposed book.

WileECoyoteIT
Member

Posts: 60
From: Italy
Registered: Jul 2016

posted 09-14-2016 05:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for WileECoyoteIT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Neil! That's a funny thing about the reverse signature. You're absolute right.

cosmos-walter
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From: Salzburg, Austria
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posted 09-14-2016 09:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cosmos-walter   Click Here to Email cosmos-walter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My book is in German language with many pictures and other information, which are also useful if you don't know German. You can find more here.

WileECoyoteIT
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Posts: 60
From: Italy
Registered: Jul 2016

posted 09-14-2016 09:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for WileECoyoteIT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Walter, I think I will wait for the English version. Sorry but my German is absolutely zero.

cosmos-walter
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Registered: Jun 2003

posted 09-14-2016 02:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cosmos-walter   Click Here to Email cosmos-walter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Unfortunately, it will take many years till an English version is available. Therefore I recommend all collectors the German book with many self-explaining pictures of flown covers and letters and figures including number existing and prices.

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