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Author
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Topic: 331760529101: Apollo 12 flown map segment
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PMKCC
Member Posts: 71
From: Kaufman, Texas, USA
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted 02-07-2016 09:30 AM
   
Does anyone have an opinion on this item 331760529101: Apollo 12 flown map section? Genuine 1" SPACE FLOWN section of lunar map taken from the APOLLO XII Command and Service Module Orbital Photo Chart B - certified by Apollo 12 Command Module Pilot Richard Gordon as "Flown to the Moon on Apollo XII."Impressive 8" x 10" framed display features inset REPRODUCTION INSCRIPTION from Richard Gordon (from the original moon map source document) along with spectacular APOLLO 12 moonscape and GENUINE MOON MAP SECTION removed from the original source document. Lunar map section is archivally mounted for conservation and display. |
rgarner
Member Posts: 1193
From: Shepperton, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 02-07-2016 10:01 AM
It looks to me like one of the map plates offered by Mike at Moonpans has been cut up and made into these displays, a crime in itself. But it does appear to match up. Though without having it in my hand, feeling the thickness of the paper, etc. I couldn't say for sure.That said, the disclaimer is a bit of a concern: Source document / sectioned document / COA images are shown for reference and provenance only and ARE NOT INCLUDED in the auction. Why not offer a photocopy of the provenance? That is suspicious.I know these map plates were cut into sections to begin with when Mike sold them, and as sad as that is the entire section of the map still held historic relevance. This however is such an indiscriminate piece, it has, at least in my eyes, lost all of its historical relevance and value - some things just shouldn't be cut up. I wouldn't touch it for that reason alone, but the disclaimer would make me suspicious of the seller anyway, so that would be another reason to steer clear in my opinion - real or not. |
mmmoo
Member Posts: 551
From: London, England
Registered: May 2001
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posted 02-07-2016 12:48 PM
Yes, this has been created from one of the Apollo 12 map sections I sold on behalf of Dick Gordon. Very sad to see it cut up into little pieces.But what is strange, is that in the 2nd photo on the eBay listing, you can see the entire map fully intact, next to one of the framed cut map pieces. It could just be a photoshop composite, made before and after the map was cut, but it looks to me like an actual unmodified photo of the map uncut, next to a framed section of the same map cut up? |
SkyMan1958
Member Posts: 867
From: CA.
Registered: Jan 2011
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posted 02-07-2016 02:32 PM
Wow...Wasn't it ASF that first started cutting up checklist pages to place in mission specific lucite holders? At least for ASF you felt it was for a good cause. I wonder how long until all the paper space artifacts out there are cut up into pieces that will fit inside of lucite holders etc. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 02-07-2016 02:39 PM
The Astronaut Scholarship Foundation was not the first. That distinction goes to a former dealer. The ASF did it twice, in 2010 and 2012, as part of the Space Artifact Series and haven't done it since. |
One Big Monkey
Member Posts: 169
From: West Yorkshire, UK
Registered: Jul 2012
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posted 02-07-2016 04:25 PM
The larger photograph of the uncut map shows that the segments in the auction are small squares from the left hand edge. The photograph shown next to the framed sale item has that left hand edge cut off. It's possible to identify which parts have been included on the frames.It does state that there is a photocopy of the COA provided, as obviously there are lots of pieces and only one COA! It is a real shame that the piece has been cut up like this, but I suppose you could argue that it has made a flown item more accessible to people with smaller budgets. |
rgarner
Member Posts: 1193
From: Shepperton, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 02-07-2016 04:29 PM
There are pieces which can be cut up to make them more affordable, kapton foil for instance. This map was cut up for profit, nothing more. As a retailer and a collector, I can't speak out against it more strongly. There is no lack of affordable material, and frankly, Mike priced the maps brilliantly. |
noroxine
Member Posts: 116
From:
Registered: Mar 2009
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posted 02-13-2016 04:49 PM
Look like that the "selling" is not going as well as the vendor hoped, so now selling - new item like a "basic" pieces.  No COA, nothing. An historic part completly destroy and disseminated just for money, who know what this will be in future ? |
Chuckster01
Member Posts: 873
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: Jan 2014
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posted 02-13-2016 06:10 PM
Although I am dead set against the destruction of any historic memorabilia I will say he is including a copy of the Gordon COA.
I have been totally ok cutting up payload bay liner, Kapton foil and other item that may be historic but the reduction in size does not detract from the historic significance. When you cut up a document, map, checklist or other printed item you have pretty much killed any chance for future generations to enjoy that item as it was used. And watch this guy try to sell the Flown to the moon signed corner of this map asking as much as he paid for the whole uncut piece (just my opinion). |
SpaceAholic
Member Posts: 4437
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 02-13-2016 06:56 PM
There have been a number of threads on this forum addressing the disappointing practice of dismantling intact artifacts for profit. Its inconsistent to state on the one hand that the collecting community is a proponent for preserving Space history and on other engaging in the act of destroying it. While the individual initially breaking up the artifact is most at fault, purchasers also bear culpability for fostering the behavior. |
moonnut
Member Posts: 248
From: Andover, MN
Registered: Apr 2013
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posted 02-13-2016 11:04 PM
I saw this exact item on eBay myself and personally for $25 I wouldn't buy it. I can't see why anyone would want it in that state. I can understand payload bay liner, ablative material and kapton foil cause even at smaller pieces it is still the same thing — size doesn't change it. But when you cut up a map, checklist or flown beta cloth patch for this matter it no longer retains its original relevance as a historical item. For example, you look at a piece of that map and have no bearing to even what part of the moon your looking at or look at a checklist page piece that contains 2-3 words that have no meaning without the rest of the page. I guess I'll never understand. |
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