Posts: 15 From: Hillsboro Missouri USA Registered: Aug 2015
posted 08-31-2015 09:23 PM
I have a piece of Gemini heat shield and was wondering the value of it. It looks like it is of a piece of a 6 inch diameter piece taken out of the heat shield. It was given out at an event at McDonnell Douglas.
stsmithva Member
Posts: 1933 From: Fairfax, VA, USA Registered: Feb 2007
posted 08-31-2015 10:13 PM
Is it displayed in clear plastic-like material? Is there a little plaque saying if it was flown on a mission?
KevinAiris Member
Posts: 15 From: Hillsboro Missouri USA Registered: Aug 2015
posted 08-31-2015 10:27 PM
It is not in plastic. It was flown. It was given out at an event at McDonnell Douglas. There is a YouTube video showing it:
stsmithva Member
Posts: 1933 From: Fairfax, VA, USA Registered: Feb 2007
posted 09-01-2015 05:35 AM
That does look like a larger-than-usual piece of flown Gemini heat shield. The fact that it isn't encased in lucite probably works against its value a bit. It's more rare to have it out, but it's not preserved and could chip and crumble easily.
It would have been nice if it was known on what mission it flew.
For comparison's sake, a piece a little bigger than yours (but square) and not in lucite, said to have flown on Gemini 8, sold for $700 a couple of years ago.
Joel Katzowitz Member
Posts: 808 From: Marietta GA USA Registered: Dec 1999
posted 09-01-2015 07:29 AM
I agree that's a flown Gemini heat shield segment. But without documentation as to which mission it flew on the value is lessened. You can't even verify if the mission was manned or unmanned.
It's a wonderful example however.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 09-01-2015 07:31 AM
quote:Originally posted by Joel Katzowitz: You can't even verify if the mission was manned or unmanned.
You can't even verify that it was flown, as heat shield was test fired on the ground, too. (And pieces from those ground test are known to have been distributed, too.)
KevinAiris Member
Posts: 15 From: Hillsboro Missouri USA Registered: Aug 2015
posted 09-01-2015 08:56 AM
There should be some way of verifying it. Like I said earlier, my father during the war was blown off of his ship. He was awarded the Bronze and Silver Star for helping save some of his shipmates. He became best friends with a gentleman who became head of security at McDonnell Douglas. He invited my father to an event at McDonnell where this piece was given out.
The Gemini 8 heat shield was taken completely off and scrapped. This piece was taken out of a round plug like the heat shield in the video. That should narrow it down to just a few.
All the pictures I have looked at there was only a few of the heat shields that had round plugs taken out. Is there a department at Boeing that I can take it to, to have it looked at?
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 09-01-2015 09:12 AM
I know it would seem like it should be a simple matter, but it is not.
There is no way to discern today from what spacecraft your heat shield segment came from, or if it came from a spacecraft at all, if there is no original record of its removal.
Heat shield samples were presented from each of the missions. They were typically embedded in lucite and inscribed with the mission on which flew, which is how they are identified today.
The best that can be said about your sample is that it is from a Gemini heat shield (as that much is evident). You can say that it was conveyed to your father that the sample flew (if that was the case) but beyond that there is no way to further identify its history.
KevinAiris Member
Posts: 15 From: Hillsboro Missouri USA Registered: Aug 2015
posted 09-01-2015 09:21 AM
What about the size of the plugs taken out of the heat shields? It can be matched to that. It is an edge piece so that tells you the diameter.
Also there should be records of the event at McDonnell and when the security guard worked there. It used to have the card that went with it but my brother misplaced it not he is gone. I kind of remember when my father came home with it.
Like I said I will go to Boeing to see what I can find out. But if you look at the heat shields on display only a few have round plugs taken out of them. With time I guess you can compare it to the plug holes and find where it lines up.
Jeff Member
Posts: 474 From: Fayetteville, NC, USA Registered: May 2009
posted 09-01-2015 10:51 AM
Not sure if you've ever visited this site, but it has great pictures of the Gemini spacecraft on display to include the heat shields. You may be surprised at the amount of round plugs cut from each spacecraft.
KevinAiris Member
Posts: 15 From: Hillsboro Missouri USA Registered: Aug 2015
posted 09-01-2015 11:24 AM
Thank you Jeff. I live here close to Boeing when my brother died I gave it to my son and never thought about it. Last week he asked me to see if we could sell it. Before now I never looked in to it. Now for the last week I have been reading everything I could to see if I could place it. This week I thought I would start with Boeing and find out when the event took place and what it was about. That should narrow it down I hope. Thank you all for your help.
KevinAiris Member
Posts: 15 From: Hillsboro Missouri USA Registered: Aug 2015
posted 09-01-2015 01:09 PM
I talked to Boeing today. Their archives department said she would look for old newspaper articles on events. She also gave me a name and phone number of a man who is their expert. I put a call waiting to hear from him. It's a start.
It looks like five of the Gemini flights had plugs taken out of the heat shield. Does anyone know of more? Thank you all for the help.
SpaceAholic Member
Posts: 4437 From: Sierra Vista, Arizona Registered: Nov 1999
posted 09-01-2015 01:20 PM
All flown Gemini thermal protection systems had cores removed for post flight analysis.
David Carey Member
Posts: 782 From: Registered: Mar 2009
posted 09-01-2015 01:28 PM
Posting for a friend some examples of NASA-produced flown Mercury/Gemini heat shield blocks mounted only to a wood plaque with an additional metal plaque thereon.
These are thought to have been given out during stops of the Apollo 11 Fifty State Tour. Does anyone know if this is the correct provenance for these particular heat shield presentations?
The unmounted block of Mercury heat shield surely came from the same batch of presentation material (mounting glue is still on the back) but sadly lacks the proof of flown status.
Jeff Member
Posts: 474 From: Fayetteville, NC, USA Registered: May 2009
posted 09-01-2015 01:32 PM
On the site I referenced above, there are at least 6 that show circular plugs cut out. Geminis 3, 4, 5, 6A, 9 and 12. Like Scott mentioned also, all Gemini flights had some sort of plug removed for post flight analysis.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 09-01-2015 01:52 PM
quote:Originally posted by KevinAiris: The Gemini 8 heat shield was taken completely off and scrapped.
The Smithsonian has at least 60 segments of the Gemini 8 spacecraft's heat shield in its collection, including square and round blocks, and even the sections from which the round samples were excised.
KevinAiris Member
Posts: 15 From: Hillsboro Missouri USA Registered: Aug 2015
posted 09-01-2015 02:50 PM
Thank you for all of the help, I really appreciate it.
Joel Katzowitz Member
Posts: 808 From: Marietta GA USA Registered: Dec 1999
posted 09-01-2015 03:21 PM
David, those flown heat shield displays are fairly common. I have an identical Aurora Seven example myself. I have also seen Sigma Seven versions of the same display configuration. I would assume they are authentic.
KevinAiris Member
Posts: 15 From: Hillsboro Missouri USA Registered: Aug 2015
posted 09-07-2015 12:59 PM
I have put the Gemini heat shield on eBay. Thank you for your help.
KevinAiris Member
Posts: 15 From: Hillsboro Missouri USA Registered: Aug 2015
posted 09-17-2015 06:42 PM
I dropped the price on eBay. Is this more like it?
thisismills Member
Posts: 263 From: Michigan Registered: Mar 2012
posted 09-17-2015 06:55 PM
$850 still seems too high for a piece from an unknown mission. Best way to find out, start the auction at $1 and see where it goes.
KevinAiris Member
Posts: 15 From: Hillsboro Missouri USA Registered: Aug 2015
posted 09-17-2015 08:18 PM
My son wants to keep it if it doesn't sell at $850. Thank you for all your help.
SpaceAholic Member
Posts: 4437 From: Sierra Vista, Arizona Registered: Nov 1999
posted 09-17-2015 08:25 PM
Concur... average valuation for a non-attributed Gemini heat-shield component of this size is more likely in the $350-$500 range.
Skythings Member
Posts: 243 From: Registered: Jun 2014
posted 09-17-2015 08:52 PM
quote:Originally posted by KevinAiris: My son wants to keep it if it doesn't sell at $850.
I think your son should keep it. He will likely never find another.
KevinAiris Member
Posts: 15 From: Hillsboro Missouri USA Registered: Aug 2015
posted 09-20-2015 10:10 AM
Is it legal to sell this heat shield out of the country?
I have several people wanting to buy it right now. I could not find anything about it not being ok. Please help. Thank you.
SpaceAholic Member
Posts: 4437 From: Sierra Vista, Arizona Registered: Nov 1999
posted 09-20-2015 12:05 PM
Not permissible to sell or transfer spacecraft ablative heatshield technology to non-US citizen or export under U.S. State Department and Department of Commerce statutes. Many threads regarding the topic on this board, the most recent discussion.
KevinAiris Member
Posts: 15 From: Hillsboro Missouri USA Registered: Aug 2015
posted 10-03-2015 07:13 PM
My son is going to sell it for $350.
posted 08-31-2015 09:23 PM
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