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  Possible counterfeit Winco Mars Curiosity medals

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Author Topic:   Possible counterfeit Winco Mars Curiosity medals
tnperri
Member

Posts: 452
From: Malvern, Ohio
Registered: Jun 2011

posted 05-07-2015 08:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for tnperri   Click Here to Email tnperri     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I found this while surfing.

It appears to be the Winco Mars Curiosity medals but there are quite a few available. Not sure if these are counterfeit or not but something doesn't seem right. I sent a email to Winco but have not heard back. Thought I let everyone know.

onesmallstep
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Posts: 1310
From: Staten Island, New York USA
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 05-07-2015 10:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for onesmallstep   Click Here to Email onesmallstep     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nothing unusual about this particular listing, as thousands were produced by Winco using antique copper and incorporating test metal from an engineering model of Curiosity. I even checked our esteemed editor's article on space.com two years ago, and the details of the medal match. Also, this is not a particularly expensive or rare piece.

usafspace
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Posts: 88
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Registered: May 2006

posted 05-07-2015 11:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for usafspace   Click Here to Email usafspace     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Most Winco medallions are made in China. I just checked the "current" page from your older link and it is not available.

cycleroadie
Member

Posts: 452
From: Apalachin, NY USA
Registered: May 2011

posted 05-07-2015 11:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cycleroadie   Click Here to Email cycleroadie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The first link alone adds up to just under 50,000 medals (lots of 50, 999 lots available). That's a lot of available medals counterfeit or not.

rgarner
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Posts: 1193
From: Shepperton, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012

posted 05-07-2015 02:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rgarner   Click Here to Email rgarner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Having spoke to my contact at Winco I can say that these are counterfeit. You will see a response from Winco soon I expect.

tnperri
Member

Posts: 452
From: Malvern, Ohio
Registered: Jun 2011

posted 05-07-2015 03:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tnperri   Click Here to Email tnperri     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I checked out the mint's site. They have amex 1 ounce silver bars (actually only silver plated) etc. Looks like they make "replica" medals.

Winco
Member

Posts: 13
From: Chatsworth, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2008

posted 05-07-2015 04:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Winco   Click Here to Email Winco     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am personally outraged about this situation and I can assure you, Winco will aggressively pursue the criminals who are unethically reproducing/selling reproductions of our products.

Since yesterday, I have found three different China companies offering unauthorized reproductions of our Curiosity medallion. Although one site has copied our pictures, they have other pictures that show a poor quality reproduction that lacks the high quality detail/dimension produced by Winco (there are other compromised differences as well).

The other two companies have the same poor quality reproductions (per the exact same pictures — strange since these three companies all use the same pictures of a lower quality reproduction — we will get to the bottom of this mystery as well).

Of course, these unauthorized medallions do not contain the metal used in the engineering of Curiosity as stated on the medallion and as included in Winco's medallions.

One of these unethical companies has discontinued selling this medallion. I have also demanded they remove their internet offer. Frankly, this situation provides another sad commentary about the world in which we live.

Winco will do everything within its power to stop this blatant crime and any other similar situations that may arise in the future. Business and personal integrity has been and always will be our standard and priority. Unfortunately, we now have to deal with clueless criminals who think they can disguise themselves as ethical business people.

Andy Boston
President, Winco International

p51
Member

Posts: 1642
From: Olympia, WA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted 05-07-2015 05:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for p51   Click Here to Email p51     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good luck, Andy. China is a hotbed for trademark and copyright infringement. A pal of mine has made a career going after Chinese forgers on all kinds of stuff. He's shown me seized (and partially destroyed) examples of DVDs coming out of China. I couldn't tell the difference between how the discs and boxes look on the fakes over the real ones. He said it's all a seriously uphill fight.

You can find halfway decent Chinese copies of the U.S. Medal of Honor (some list the variants of each branch of the military as each are a little different), which is illegal for a normal U.S. citizen to own.

Or, scarier still, check out this vendor, making exact copies of older US coins.

If they're making those, and getting away with it in the face or understandable uproar from vet groups, I'm not sure how enforcement of your copyrights are going to work out in such a case.

Winco
Member

Posts: 13
From: Chatsworth, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2008

posted 05-07-2015 05:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Winco   Click Here to Email Winco     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I should also add, in consideration of how many official space medallions can be produced of any given title, the quantity Winco will produce of the Curiosity medallion will be low (I plan on disclosing the edition quantity through collectSPACE in the future).

As most of you know, Winco has the profound honor of making official, historic medallions for NASA and the industry. Like many of our other low edition space medallions, and in consideration of all that matters, Winco's Curiosity medallion will appreciate in value over time. Based on the pictures of the unauthorized reproductions, it should be easy to tell the difference between the compromised copies and the quality medallions produced by Winco.

quote:
Originally posted by p51:
I'm not sure how enforcement of your copyrights are going to work out in such a case.
We will relentlessly pursue all the clueless wonders who (in this case) are a couple wontons shy of a picnic. We will do so as if our efforts will actually make a difference. Sometimes denial and being stubborn can be quality characteristics!

p51
Member

Posts: 1642
From: Olympia, WA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted 05-07-2015 05:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for p51   Click Here to Email p51     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm sure I'm not alone in wishing you all the luck in the world in that regard. As an artist myself, I consider piracy of a design to be a truly heinous crime.

JBoe
Member

Posts: 960
From: Churchton, MD
Registered: Oct 2012

posted 05-08-2015 06:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for JBoe   Click Here to Email JBoe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Andy and Tim, thank you both for bringing this to our attention! I can see this being a problem that will continue to perpetuate through various online stores and especially eBay. This may become problem for eBay to sway or even restrict sellers who may have counterfeits in their inventories (whether knowing or unknowing).

Tim and I had a conversation about this and my initial thought was that the luster was off. I've seen these medallions in authorized stores (NASA HQ and reputable online space dealers) and there's been a various degree in luster, but not like the dullness displayed on the link above.

Winco
Member

Posts: 13
From: Chatsworth, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2008

posted 05-11-2015 06:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Winco   Click Here to Email Winco     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I must confess, I'm surprised about the outcome of my efforts to eliminate the illegal Curiosity medallion offers.

I found four different Chinese companies offering our Curiosity medallion. All of them have either removed their offers, or, the web pages now state, "This item is no longer available."

Needless to say, I am hoping we do not have to revisit this again. For many years we have enjoyed outstanding relationships with the management of our overseas factories. I have appreciated and am impressed with their level of integrity. This recent experience with others has proven once again, people are people wherever you go (decency and ignorance does not discriminate). Whether it's here in the US or in China, or anywhere else, you'll find the good, the bad and the ugly wherever you go.

usafspace
Member

Posts: 88
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Registered: May 2006

posted 05-11-2015 08:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for usafspace   Click Here to Email usafspace     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think there might be some of the fake's on ebay, item 161702058077. Something else that I noticed is the Spider-Man coins the seller is offering match the ones from the first Chinese seller called into question at the beginning of this topic. Other opinions?

tnperri
Member

Posts: 452
From: Malvern, Ohio
Registered: Jun 2011

posted 05-12-2015 06:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for tnperri   Click Here to Email tnperri     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not sure about the item you mention but the ones now showing up under puffthemagicdragon assuredly are. They show a much weaker strike I sent a note to the seller will see what he says.

Update: Well he replied and stated he bought them off eBay and wasn't aware of them possibly being counterfeits. He has removed the auctions.

Winco
Member

Posts: 13
From: Chatsworth, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2008

posted 05-12-2015 03:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Winco   Click Here to Email Winco     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have more than significant suspicions that the four companies in question were either the same or somehow related. Although I communicated with different people, it's possible all were in fact the same company, or, they there is an unusual relationship between them. The same/similar pictures on each post also indicated this.

Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member

Posts: 3445
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 05-12-2015 04:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hart Sastrowardoyo   Click Here to Email Hart Sastrowardoyo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't collect these, so forgive what may seem like a stupid suggestion: Are the weight and diameter of the real medals available so people can tell the difference between them and counterfeits (as I've seen with US coins?) Or is the difference between the two only "cosmetic," as in the finish?

tnperri
Member

Posts: 452
From: Malvern, Ohio
Registered: Jun 2011

posted 05-12-2015 05:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tnperri   Click Here to Email tnperri     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Have not actually held one of the counterfeits. We only noticed them online, so far.

usafspace
Member

Posts: 88
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Registered: May 2006

posted 05-12-2015 07:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for usafspace   Click Here to Email usafspace     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by usafspace:
I think there might be some of the fake's on ebay, item 161702058077.
If you look at an authentic Winco Mars medallion, you will see a little edge detail. The ones that I brought into question lack that detail completely.

tnperri
Member

Posts: 452
From: Malvern, Ohio
Registered: Jun 2011

posted 05-14-2015 06:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tnperri   Click Here to Email tnperri     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Looks like more counterfeits on eBay. What do you think?

usafspace
Member

Posts: 88
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Registered: May 2006

posted 05-14-2015 07:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for usafspace   Click Here to Email usafspace     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yep, good catch.

JBoe
Member

Posts: 960
From: Churchton, MD
Registered: Oct 2012

posted 05-14-2015 07:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JBoe   Click Here to Email JBoe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think I found a few more, what do you think?

usafspace
Member

Posts: 88
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Registered: May 2006

posted 05-15-2015 04:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for usafspace   Click Here to Email usafspace     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
All four of your examples are fake.

JBoe
Member

Posts: 960
From: Churchton, MD
Registered: Oct 2012

posted 06-07-2015 09:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JBoe   Click Here to Email JBoe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think I found another questionable medallion. This medallion, 151697185106, originates in the Ukraine.

David Silcox
Member

Posts: 28
From: Shillington
Registered: Oct 2008

posted 05-20-2016 08:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for David Silcox   Click Here to Email David Silcox     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just discovered that I bought one of the counterfeit Mars Curiosity medals on eBay in August 2015. A friend just shared with me the real medal produced by Winco.

I contacted both eBay and PayPal. They said it is too late to file a complaint but gave me the name of the seller, phone number, an the town where he lives. He states that he got it at the JPL Lab store. I'm sure that NASA is not selling these counterfeits. I told him that the FBI will be in touch with him for selling Chinese counterfeits on eBay.

At first he was going to refund my money if I filed a claim with PayPal but when I told him that wasn't an option and he could send me a check and I would send him back the counterfeit, he changed his mind about refunding my money... go figure!

The difference is so apparent. As a long time coin collector I have been reading about how good the Chinese have gotten when it comes to counterfeiting rare coins and more lately, they are not just focusing on rare coins; they are going for everything! So sad because it takes away from the joy of collecting coins. Now, when buying an expensive coin, one has to send it into one of the three big certification services to make sure it is authentic or buy one already certified and contained in a plastic slab.

I also found another counterfeit Mars Curiosity Winco medal for sale yesterday, May 19, 2016 on eBay. The seller is located in Mongolia. I reported the item to eBay. They limit your message to a 100 letters so what you can write is limited about this important issue.

JBoe
Member

Posts: 960
From: Churchton, MD
Registered: Oct 2012

posted 05-21-2016 10:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for JBoe   Click Here to Email JBoe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
David, you aren't the only one to be fooled. I saw a gold plated version from Australia for under $10 and turned out to be counterfeit. I think that the Curiosity medallion is the most counterfeited one that I've seen. I have sent Andy Boston, Winco President, a list of fraudulent sellers on eBay and he's very appreciative that these people have been identified. Unfortunately, there's so many out there and can only do so much with eBay. I think the collective can help him by notifying of possible counterfeits when discovered.

Additionally, I'm not sure which agency and what are the requirements needed to make the attention of a federal agency. I would think that U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement's Intellectual Properties office would be an ideal point of contact.

All times are CT (US)

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