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Author
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Topic: Bill Anders autograph: autopen, real or forgery?
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billewald
Member Posts: 89
From: Stafford, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted 03-28-2015 11:18 AM
   
This is an Anders photo with red serial number S-68-56532. I have checked the autopen guide, and to me the "Anders" looks very similar to an autopen, but the "Bill" looks very different. So, because of the "Bill" I do not think it is an autopen. So, my guess is, it is a forgery or its authentic, but it is not an autopen.I want to sell this on eBay, but I am not sure how to proceed. Because of the "possible" rarity of this item I would like to provide you with a little background about myself, I am an honest eBay seller, but I will be the first to say I am NOT an expert on "space items." My fear has always been that some buyers may interpret my lack of knowledge as dishonesty, I am certain this is always a problem when you have someone like myself is dealing in a very specific area. But I have found myself dealing in these space items because I have a knowledge of eBay, which I acquired from my late friend Mike Levine. Some of you may already know that I have been asked by his family to help liquidate his estate. They have trusted me to be honest and knowledgeable with selling on eBay, which I am, but they also know that I lack the expertise of each specific area that this collection encompasses. Mike Levine's collection goes well beyond space, so they have trusted me to do the best I can in each area. I know this item could be valuable if it's authentic. I can't find any background to where my friend Mike acquired this photo. Thank you for any help on this one.  |
Steve Zarelli
Member Posts: 731
From: Upstate New York, USA
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 03-28-2015 01:03 PM
Because you specifically asked about the history of this item, I will share what I know.This was sold as part of lot 323 in Regency Superior's June 2014 auction. Prior to that, I rejected it when it was submitted to another auction house. It bears a number of atypical traits that gave me pause and doubt. I did not feel comfortable putting my name behind it. |
billewald
Member Posts: 89
From: Stafford, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted 03-28-2015 07:00 PM
Steve, thanks for the response. I am not surprised with your comment. I have not seen any of his autographs with a "Bill" written like that. But its such a nice photo, I was hoping maybe that no one would actually ruin it by forgery. I guess I'm wrong. I have read that he often switched up his autographs for some reason. But I am not sure if that is statement is accurate either. Thanks again. |
astrobock
Member Posts: 138
From: WV, USA
Registered: Sep 2006
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posted 03-29-2015 07:00 AM
I respect Steve's opinion; a valuable resource no doubt. On this example I do not see what the issues might be. I think this Anders signature looks good. |
Steve Zarelli
Member Posts: 731
From: Upstate New York, USA
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 03-29-2015 11:23 AM
Bear in mind that is what forgers do — make imitations that "look good." Don't be lulled into a false sense of security because there are easily identifiable, poorly executed fakes on eBay. There are skilled forgers creating highly deceptive astronaut autographs.For this item in particular, consider a few points: - The perfect signature on the perfect image. A carefully applied, full name Bill Anders signature in an area of nice contrast on a NASA red serial number glossy. How often do you see that?
- I examined this photo in hand and spent a lot of time on it. What is the odd rubbing to portions of the signature? It does not appear to be the type of smearing you see when a still wet signature is slid into an envelope. It looks like it was rubbed after it dried. Could it be from someone trying to rub the sheen off to make the ink look more aged than it is? Or to try to make it look more "streaky"?
- Where is the speed and streakiness you typically see in Anders' signatures?
- There are at least three subtle formation issues that bother me, but I am not going to detail those on a public discussion board.
As I stated earlier, I can't state with 100% certainty it is bad... maybe my suspicions are unfounded. But there are more than enough red flags to make me have significant doubts about this item. |
billewald
Member Posts: 89
From: Stafford, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted 03-31-2015 09:08 AM
Thank you all again, obviously I was hoping for a definitive answer, but in reality I knew that would not happen. I had already been given answers of "might be authentic" "Forgery" and "it looks good." Since I have mentioned that I am selling an estate for my friend I am thinking of listing this on eBay as a "Vintage NASA Apollo 8 Anders 8X10 Photo Red Serial# S-68-56532 On A Kodak Paper" (no mention of autograph or signature). Would any of you collectors object to me selling it with this heading? I will also mention in the description/listing that the "signature cannot be verified as have been written by Anders himself." |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 03-31-2015 09:11 AM
In my opinion, if you have any reason to believe it is a forgery, it should not be offered for sale. |
billewald
Member Posts: 89
From: Stafford, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted 03-31-2015 04:12 PM
Robert, I understand your point, and if it was not such a nice picture I would not even consider it. But it is a beautiful red serial numbered photo. Which I would hate to just shred because I cannot get a definitive answer to a real or fake autograph. In any case I will not be listing it. I do not want to be mistrusted in field that I know little about, and where I must rely on the expertise of others. Thanks again. |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 03-31-2015 05:32 PM
It may be possible to wipe the signature from the photograph, so at least you're left with a nice vintage NASA glossy. That sure beats the alternative option of destroying the photo altogether if one isn't confident about the signature.Are there other signatures on the photo? In the scan provided, there appears to be more ink at the edge of the scan. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 03-31-2015 05:37 PM
I've seen the full frame and there aren't additional signatures. The ink you're seeing is Bill's plastic overlay, which he uses to "watermark" photos with his eBay ID. |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 04-01-2015 04:05 PM
Okay, that makes sense. What I thought might be a crease in the photo is actually the edge of the overlay.For what it's worth, I also think the signature is suspect. It's better than an average forgery, but there are enough red flags that I could never feel comfortable buying or selling it. |
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