posted 12-10-2003 09:26 AM               

I have a hard time with dealers chopping up artifacts, but now to find the premier air and space museum in this country is destroying artifacts due to storage concerns!

Why didn't they find another museum to hang the parachute. The Boston Museum of Science has nothing up here. Many of us have a better collection then our best science museum in the New England area. I am sure they could have used it for a display.

posted 12-10-2003 11:21 AM               

I know that the huge Bonestell mural from the Boston Museum of Science is somewhere in the NASM basement slowly disolving away.

posted 12-10-2003 04:24 PM               

During my tour I came across several Apollo food packs that had ironically been returned from the Science Museum in London. From memory the packs had flown but I could not swear to that. They had deteriorated to the point that several packs had small punctures or tears. I was told they were to be destroyed.

Despite my good samaritan offer to find a suitable resting place for the "garbage" my most genial and friendly host politely insisted upon disposal.

posted 01-06-2004 11:07 PM               

Can you provide complete chain of custody/ownership documentation for each and every one of your collectable space items? Most likely not. And it appears that if you cannot, then Smithsonian, NASA, or some other agency can take it from you if they decide they want it. And the burden of proof is on you, not them.

20-30 years ago, this stuff was largely considered to be garbage. I'll be that no one cared one bit that Dick Williamson peeled of a piece of Kapton from the Apollo 11 Command Module. Smithsonian and other museums kept the good stuff, and didn't have much use for what was left. It was thrown away, given away, sold off, etc. We've all heard of the famous "garage sale" at ILC...

Well, over the years, collectors have made these previously unwanted articles quite valuable. The internet has made them quite noticeable. And suddenly, the "big boys" have become interested in the things that they cast off years ago.

Can you provide a complete transfer of ownership for your little triangle of Columbia skin? How 'bout that NASA model that you bought at a Superior or Aurora auction?

posted 01-06-2004 11:36 PM               

Rogine's story is that the parachute was immediately gifted to him upon his friend's return from the National Air and Space Museum. If so, and the museum (his friend was curator) had no intention of keeping the parachute, why did they enter it into inventory? Why didn't they remove it from inventory after it was gifted? Why is the second parachute, which Rogine says was the possession of his friend and might be sold, always in the control of the Aerodrome?

posted 01-07-2004 12:20 AM               

But for items of more value, you just never know.

posted 01-07-2004 04:16 AM               

As a suit-part collector I've taken steps to protect myself by acquiring a copy of the Smithsonian's suit inventory, given that they hold the majority of all vintage space suits. I can easily check that prospective purchases aren't listed as part of their collection, but what about other museums, or NASA? I don't have one single official document or scrap tag to offer in my assertion of ownership.

Robert - I agree that we're unlikely to see an FBI led global sting operation here but I think it's wrong to pass the issue off as a single case not related to the larger collecting community. I was mildly disturbed by your reports of three separate museums discovering that numerous items are missing from their inventories. Logic suggests that these items are either all stashed in the most valuable attic ever or they've been sold onto their target market - us.

How many items have appeared in the Superior/Aurora/Swann/Christies auctions that have impeccable provenance but no paperwork? Even more commonly how many come with no provenance or paperwork at all? And let's not even get started with eBay - caveat ebayor says it all.

posted 01-07-2004 09:23 AM               

However I would hope that if a museum affected by these thefts were able to identify that one or more of their missing artifacts was now in one or more of our collections, that as responsible collectors we would work with them to facilitate its return. I don't expect any collector to just write off the hard earned money they spent on acquiring such pieces, but I also wouldn't expect any of us to steadfastly stand behind "finders keepers, losers weepers".

It is a good idea for all space hardware and flown artifact collectors to do their best researching the history of their items. You may not have paperwork, but perhaps you can learn where the relevant information is on file for future reference should the need arise.

At the very least, you should possess some type of record of where you acquired the artifact. In Rogine's case, he had nothing to show the transfer of the parachute to him. If you bought an item from an auction or dealer, you have an invoice. If you bought it directly from an astronaut, you commonly have a letter certifying it as once part of their collection. If you buy from another collector, or trade, you should note that somewhere in your own records.

posted 01-07-2004 10:28 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Matt T:
As a suit-part collector I've taken steps to protect myself by acquiring a copy of the Smithsonian's suit inventory, given that they hold the majority of all vintage space suits.

---

posted 06-15-2004 01:42 PM               

Here it is. Justice, well almost. On June 3rd the case against Christopher Rogine involving the Apollo Space parachute was dismissed, all charges against him were dropped. The DA said, in the light of justice, this case is dismissed. Then the judge said, yes, after reading 30 pages... Again the DA says, in the light of justice, this case is dismissed, but, now we must have a meeting with both parties to decide who is the rightful owner of the parachute.

The many notarized depositions, state how Chris got the parachute in 1982 as a gift from Rick Vogt and Cole Palen. That is the evidence that threw out the case. What more is there to discuss? Just more bills the attorneys can rack up and bury the incident so that no one else will look bad. In the meantime, an innocent man and his family are left to suffer.

And no big press releases in any of the many newspapers that ruined this man's reputation with the false accusation of possession of stolen property...

posted 06-15-2004 01:57 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
At the very least, you should possess some type of record of where you acquired the artifact.

---

Case in point: I have a large-size shuttle tile, LRSI, about 8 inches to a side, one of the few almost intact tiles I've seen. I bought it off of lunarlegacies.com. It probably came with an invoice which I can't find/don't have, but no scrap tag (it is marked "scrap" however.) There is a partial serial number on it; while Donnis couldn't tell which orbiter or when it was scrapped (his best guess was early '90s, if I recall), with some difficulty I could read off the numbers that are on it to someone that has access to a shuttle tile database.

posted 06-15-2004 02:39 PM               

The fact alone that Mr. Rogine listed the item for sale in plain sight does not cast validity or doubt on the offer. Mr. Rogine may have (and probably was) not aware that the Aerodrome had the parachute still listed as part of their inventory. Personally, I was surprised as compared to just about anyone that the investigation proceeded as it had having come so close to offering the chute for sale on buySPACE.