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Author
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Topic: 370008589171, 270199314765, 180200429071: Astronaut autographs
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stsmithva
Member Posts: 1933
From: Fairfax, VA, USA
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 12-29-2007 08:10 AM
   
370008589171, 270199314765, 180200429071: Armstrong, Soyuz 11 and Conrad: - 370008589171: A starting bid of $1,295 - but is it all autopens, with an Armstrong forgery thrown in for variety's sake?
- 270199314765: Volkov, Dobrovolski and Patsaev - the crew of Soyuz-11 - who died in 1971. Signed photo from training. Now, according to Bob McLeod's great article, Dobrovolski and Patsaev tie as the rarest astro/cosmonaut autographs. If genuine, shouldn't this sell at auction for thousands upon thousands? And here is has a BuyItNow of $895. He's also got Gagarins for BuyItNow prices of under $200. This seller has sold over a thousand autographs and space hardware items for a fortune.
- 180200429071: Cernan's "Last Man on the Moon" signed by him and Charles Conrad. If genuine, this must be incredibly rare. The book was first published in March 1999, and Conrad died on July 8.
Steve |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 12-29-2007 11:39 AM
1. Too bad an apparently very nice signed Aldrin cover was ruined.
2. This person (maksuta) has sold a ton of these Soyuz 11 crew "autographs" over the years.
3. This Conrad (like the Cernan) autograph appears to be authentic (IMO) from what can be seen. Wow - this book signed by Conrad would have to be very rare, I would think. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 12-29-2007 12:04 PM
quote:
Originally posted by stsmithva:
If genuine, this must be incredibly rare. The book was first published in March 1999, and Conrad died on July 8.
It's probably impossible to confirm now, as the eBay seller didn't obtain the signatures, but on June 23, 1999, Conrad attended a space tourism conference in Washington, DC and my vague recollection is that Cernan was there, too. But even if he was not, Cernan gave a lecture three days later at the National Air and Space Museum. So during that one week, DC area residents had the opportunity to get both astronauts' autographs (as I did, in my copy of Cassutt's "Who's Who in Space").(Not that I am suggesting that was the only opportunity when the two were together between March and July 1999, but it's an example of an opportunity.) |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 2914
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 12-29-2007 01:20 PM
The Armstrong is certainly a forgey, but the Aldrin, Duke, Cernan, and Conrad all appear authentic. I have no problem with the Cernan book being signed by Conrad as there were many weeks (or a few months) inbetween when the book was first made available to the public and Conrad's unexpected death in early July. |
poofacio
Member Posts: 268
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2006
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posted 12-29-2007 03:23 PM
I would appreciate any opinions on the Apollo 7 crew photo. I need one! |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 12-29-2007 03:28 PM
For the first lot, it appears there are a mix of autopens, forgeries, and authentic signatures. One might guess these came from the collection of someone with very little ability (or help) in authenticating signatures. My own guesses towards authenticity are: Authentic signatures:
Aldrin signature on cover
Duke signature on cover
Cernan WSS
Henize litho
STS-2 crew signed litho
Creighton litho
Irwin litho
Hilmers litho
Joe Allen litho
David Griggs litho
Cernan saluting flag photo Likely autopens:
Apollo 12 litho
Apollo 13 index cards (Haise, Lovell, Swigert)
Skylab crew litho
Apollo 7 litho
Apollo 15 lihto
Garriott litho Likely forgeries:
Armstrong on cover (TERRIBLE forgery)
Grissom litho
STS-4 with Mattingly Too hard to tell:
Overmyer signed STS crew litho
Tom Stafford litho (could be real, could be forgery)
K. Thornton litho
Sonny Carter litho
Donn Eisele litho (possible real)
Brewster Shaw litho (leaning towards autopen)
W. Thornton litho My personal value on this collection would be in the $600-$900 range, assuming all of the signatures I said were authentic are indeed the real deal. Having the Eisele be authentic would help too. The Aldrin is essentially worthless next to that Armstrong forgery. |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 2914
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 12-29-2007 03:54 PM
Sorry, but I wasn't able to see the other signature scans until now, but I'll pretty much support what "mjanovec" said in his earlier post. It would appear to me that Stafford is probably genuine, along with Eisele, but a better scan is needed of both along with a few others already noted. Good work, "mjanovec." |
John K. Rochester
Member Posts: 1292
From: Rochester, NY, USA
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 12-29-2007 06:24 PM
quote:
Originally posted by stsmithva:
He's also got Gagarins for BuyItNow prices of under $200.
Unfortunately you can add me to the list of those who purchased a bogus Gagarin from this lying sack of excrement... I forgot the 1st rule of autograph collecting, "If it seems too good to be true... it AINT!" |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 12-30-2007 01:15 PM
quote:
Originally posted by John K. Rochester:
I forgot the 1st rule of autograph collecting, "If it seems too good to be true... it AINT!"
You mean "If it seems too good to be true, then it IS (too good to be true)."  |
Bob M
Member Posts: 1745
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 12-30-2007 01:53 PM
quote:
Originally posted by John K. Rochester:
Unfortunately you can add me to the list of those who purchased a bogus Gagarin from this lying sack of excrement... I forgot the 1st rule of autograph collecting, "If it seems too good to be true... it AINT!"
Looks like it's time again to discuss eBay Power Seller "Maksuta." Although he's been the topic of many posts here in the past, some new collectors may not be familiar with his history and go for some of his tempting space material at low prices.A check of "Maksuta" (his eBay User ID) on eBay shows a wide variety and assortment of space stuff (along with shawls and other non-space Russian material). Included in his current 394 lots are typically plenty of Gagarin autographs; many Korolevs; some Tsiolkovskys; many multi-signed items by pioneer cosmonauts; many flown/autographed flags (check out the astronaut autographs on them); a few autographed ASTP items with dubious signatures (270199315589 for example); and two more Soyuz 11 crew signed photos added to his long list of other previously offered or sold Soyuz 11 items. Maksuta is the leading supplier of Soyuz 11 crew signatures (on photos, covers, postcards, books) and he typically offers just about any other autographed Russian-related space collectible you can imagine. Soyuz 11 signed material shows up practically everywhere now, including most of the big prestigious auction houses, with the first ones appearing years ago in a Superior auction and then selling for around $5,000. Now they can be had for less than $1,000 and probably many continue to be sold. Bob Mc. |
Lou Chinal
Member Posts: 1306
From: Staten Island, NY
Registered: Jun 2007
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posted 12-30-2007 05:26 PM
Hi, I was just on eBay and came across items 270199306899 and 270199315822. This guy sure has alot of stuff for sale. Thanks for the tip.-Lou |
ColinBurgess
Member Posts: 2031
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: Sep 2003
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posted 12-30-2007 05:44 PM
I may have mentioned this once before, but it's worth repeating. Dutch spaceflight historian Bert Vis is a good friend of a great many years, and he is very well-known and liked by literally dozens of cosmonauts. Bert is also a collector of cosmonaut autographs (but only one from each person), and for many years now he has been trying to obtain through his personal contacts at Star City any legitimate signature of Dobrovolsky and Patsayev. To date, he has not enjoyed any success at all, even with sympathetic family members, who told him that their husbands/fathers simply did not sign anything prior to their flight - a long-held and well known superstition among cosmonauts before their first space flight. I would simply say this - that if Bert with all his personal connections has never been able to obtain a legitimate signature of either of these men, then what does this say about this flood of purported crew-signed photos this character has been imposing on the market? I can't begin to repeat what Bert has to say about these forgers and their wares.I often suspect that a lot of the eBay buyers actually know the Soyuz 11 signatures are faked, but they want a copy because it will look good framed or in their collection. This sordid business is a sad indictment of the whole fake autograph charade as it stands today, and how these unscrupulous low-lifes have created a money-grubbing industry that will have ramifications for any collectors for decades, maybe even centuries, to come. Colin | |
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