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Author
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Topic: Neil Armstrong Autographs on Mastronet
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Kurt
Member Posts: 83
From: Santa Clara, CA
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 07-28-2005 12:00 AM
  
I was wondering about all the local experts opinions on the following Neil Armstrong signed autographs offered for auction on the upcoming Mastronet auction. Mastronet uses PSA/DNA - Steve Grad and John Reznikoff to authenticate their autographs. They've been notorious for authenticating autopens and "suspicious autographs", especially in the Astronaut and Presidential fields. In any case, I'm interested in what you all think in their latest assessments.
http://www.mastronet.com/index.cfm?action=DisplayContent&ContentName=Lot%20Information&LotIndex=49731&CurrentRow=1
http://www.mastronet.com/index.cfm?action=DisplayContent&ContentName=Lot%20Information&LotIndex=49734&CurrentRow=1
http://www.mastronet.com/index.cfm?action=DisplayContent&ContentName=Lot%20Information&LotIndex=49736&CurrentRow=1
http://www.mastronet.com/index.cfm?action=DisplayContent&ContentName=Lot%20Information&LotIndex=49737&CurrentRow=1
http://www.mastronet.com/index.cfm?action=DisplayContent&ContentName=Lot%20Information&LotIndex=49738&CurrentRow=1 Also, if there are any Presidential signature experts, I'd be interested in their opinions on this Mastronet 5 Presidents baseballs signed lot:
http://www.mastronet.com/index.cfm?action=DisplayContent&ContentName=Lot%20Information&LotIndex=49727&CurrentRow=41 |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 07-28-2005 07:45 AM
I have a problem with the second one and the scan is too small on the fifth one, but the others look OK to me.On the baseballs, I don't know enough to make a judgment on the GW Bush, but the others look OK to me. |
Bob M
Member Posts: 1745
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 07-28-2005 09:18 AM
From the little I've seen, Mastronet seems to do a pretty good job in only offering authentic astronaut autographs and seem to be a 1st class operation. But like almost all auctions, they rarely provide any provenance or any information of where their stuff comes from. They, instead, only give names or authenticating services that often have less than perfect reputations. In the case of these 5 lots listed above, especially the 1st two, it sure would be interesting & enlightening to learn who consigned them and their provenance. But these big auction houses have found that that isn't necessary for them to sell their stuff, so why provide info that may hurt their sales? And that lack of providing provenance is pretty common and routine in our hobby. Bob Mc. |
Kurt
Member Posts: 83
From: Santa Clara, CA
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 07-28-2005 10:33 AM
Bob and Scott,Thanks for your replies. Bob, why do you state "In the case of these 5 lots listed above, especially the 1st two, it sure would be interesting & enlightening to learn who consigned them and their provenance."? Is this because you have some concerns about those 2 lots? Scott: Regarding the Presidents baseballs opinions, thanks. I have some interesting information to pass along regarding that lot, but first I'm hoping that others out here can offer some other opinions on the lot. |
Bob M
Member Posts: 1745
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 07-28-2005 03:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Kurt:
Bob and Scott,Thanks for your replies. Bob, why do you state "In the case of these 5 lots listed above, especially the 1st two, it sure would be interesting & enlightening to learn who consigned them and their provenance."? Is this because you have some concerns about those 2 lots?
Kurt, I don't have any special concerns about any of the 5 space lots you listed, but the 1st two Armstrong lots are the later style of his signature that were usually applied quickly and not as carefully as he did for so many years. These late '80's/early '90's Armstrong autographs usually are inconsistant and vary a lot and are the hardest type of Armstrong autograph to authenticate. So these later Armstrong signatures, especially those uninscribed, do require and need something extra besides just being authenticated by some authenticating service, especially one who doesn't have an outstanding record with space autographs. It _would_ be helpful and useful to know from what source and when these two Armstrong autographs were obtained. Since they have no information provided with them, a bidder is given little if anything besides someone's OK that they are real. With Armstrong autographs selling for such high amounts and are so often forged, it would be beneficial and ideal if some added background information would be provided by sellers - especially with Armstrong signatures. Bob Mc. |
Kurt
Member Posts: 83
From: Santa Clara, CA
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 07-28-2005 05:48 PM
Bob,I agree with you that it would be nice if auction houses provided some provenance with their listings. Unfortunately, PSA/DNA, Mastronet's authenticator does not take into factor into their authentication as to where an autograph came from. Some auction houses do. I've consigned stuff to R&R Auctions in the past and often I've been asked where the signed items came from. Then there are the auction houses which either on their own, or through their consignor, blatantly lie about the origins. I won't mention any names, but there is a major auction house that consistantly advertises in Sports Collectors Digest, which is guilty of this. |
gliderpilotuk
Member Posts: 3398
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 07-29-2005 12:35 PM
AT $75 just to register to bid, plus the 17.5% commission I'd certainly be expecting a cast-iron guarantee.Paul |
Bob M
Member Posts: 1745
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 07-29-2005 03:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Kurt:
Unfortunately, PSA/DNA, Mastronet's authenticator does not take into factor into their authentication as to where an autograph came from.
Because forgeries in general have improved so much and are often close to the real thing, many often-forged autographs, such as Armstrongs, really need some information with them to help with authenticating. We wouldn't expect an auctioneer or dealer to provide the name of the consignor (except when the material comes from astronauts, which they are glad to provide as it's more a selling point than anything), but accurate information about when the autograph was acquired, and under what circumstances, would be very helpful and useful in determining authenticity. Also providing who the previous owners were could be useful. That's what provenance really is. Too many autographs are just offered with nothing behind them, except maybe a COA from a company or individual that may or may not have done their best to make sure that their opinion is accurate. Bob Mc. |
Kurt
Member Posts: 83
From: Santa Clara, CA
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 07-29-2005 07:11 PM
Paul,I'm not sure what the deal on the registration fee is. I started consigning stuff to Mastronet before I ever bid on anything, and hence have never paid a registration fee. Regarding the 17.5% comission, that's brand new, up from the old 15%. They state other auction houses are charging more and hence the increase in their rate increase. Kurt |
mensclub10@aol.com
New Member Posts:
From:
Registered:
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posted 07-30-2005 09:13 AM
Can't afford it at this time but I like the Ed White space walk litho they have up for auction. However, I wouldn't spend $75.00 to register for an auction. That's crazy! They should be happy we're interested enough to bid in their auction.Dave |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 07-30-2005 11:11 AM
quote:
Originally posted by mensclub10@aol.com:
I wouldn't spend $75.00 to register for an auction. That's crazy! They should be happy we're interested enough to bid in their auction.Dave
Excellent point, Dave. I agree completely.
Also, am I the only one who is a bit mystified by the rising bidder/seller premiums in the Internet Age? Back when auctions were much more difficult to create and manage, catalogs were exclusively hard copy and more was done by snail mail, the standard was 15%, max. Now with the greater ease of the Internet and email, we see 20% or even higher sometimes. I don't see the logic. |
Kurt
Member Posts: 83
From: Santa Clara, CA
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 07-30-2005 03:12 PM
Scott,I think the problem is for some reason the auction houses continue to send out these really beautiful catalogues with gorgeous pictures printed on thick paper even though they aren't needed in most cases. I get these things from several auction houses, even though I'm just as happy to browse through the auctions on the Internet. Typically, the on-line auctions show more pictures anyway. |
fabfivefreddy
Member Posts: 1067
From: Leawood, Kansas USA
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 07-31-2005 07:51 PM
I would need to see the first two much closer to be sure:
The 16 x 20 size photos makes it hard to judge scale and size.
I have 2 Armstrongs on 16 x 20 photos and I can tell you that the signatures on mine are huge. I measured them- they are almost 4 x 4 inches!
Size of Armstrong autographs is becoming an increasingly important feature in authentication since the shapes and forms are getting better in non-authentic examples.
The first thing I encourage collectors to do is to get 10 real examples that are exact photocopies, not fancy scans that have been altered. Measure the signature heights and widths- you will be amazed at how big his signature consistently is. Tahir |
DChudwin
Member Posts: 1096
From: Lincolnshire IL USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 08-01-2005 08:03 AM
While many of his autographs are big, this is not always the case. I have an Apollo 11 lunar orbit map which is personalized and signed very small to fit into the lower margin of the map. This signature was obtained through the mail and is pictured in the exemplar list of Armstrong autographs (2nd 1994 mail).David |
gliderpilotuk
Member Posts: 3398
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 08-02-2005 01:47 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Kurt:
I started consigning stuff to Mastronet before I ever bid on anything, and hence have never paid a registration fee.
Kurt[/B]
Kurt,
I'd be interested to hear of your experience with consigning to them. Could you contact me off list please?
Paul |
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