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Author
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Topic: Michael Collins
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scout706
Member Posts: 166
From: Phoenix, AZ USA
Registered: May 2002
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posted 08-10-2002 02:45 AM
   
Item #2129251744 on Ebay, Mike Collin??? |
Werb
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posted 08-10-2002 03:15 AM
All I can say is that it doesn't look like the Mike Collins I have. Any of the Experts care to check???From The Last Frontier........ Mike
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Dan Lorraine
Member Posts: 373
From: Cranston, R.I.
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-10-2002 07:22 AM
Some of these forgeries that turn up on eBay are pretty good! The Collins one is pathetic!!Dan |
BigWaveDave
Member Posts: 202
From: Waikoloa, Hawaii, USA
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted 08-10-2002 12:22 PM
Hey wait a minute .... isn't that "Micheal Neil Youngbuzzscott"? Infamous,obscure, recluse, moonwalker?
Extremely rare!!!  |
Werb
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posted 08-10-2002 12:28 PM
LOL Dave!!!!!
Now let's see how much someone gets taken for. Mike. |
Rodina
Member Posts: 836
From: Lafayette, CA
Registered: Oct 2001
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posted 08-10-2002 01:13 PM
I like how he "protects" his buyers' identity, that they might be protected from people warning them away from this crap.
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scout706
Member Posts: 166
From: Phoenix, AZ USA
Registered: May 2002
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posted 08-10-2002 01:18 PM
Hey guys,
being new to this hobby and a little unsure on the rules of etiquette. Shouldn't we warn the poor sap, or try to stop this in some way. I have read where some of you guys have posted a warning e-mail to the seller. Just curious
Happy Collecting!!!------------------
"Whoopie! Man, that may have been a small one for Neil, but it's a long one for me." - Pete Conrad, Apollo 12, November 19, 1972 |
Werb
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posted 08-12-2002 01:35 PM
I got it! A new angle to collecting! Try collecting all the different fakes! ( No I'm not serious. ) Alot of them would be one of a kinds. Actually, there have been alot of members who have warned the sellers. However sometimes it comes out pretty nasty. Alot of them can't fathom that they are selling a fake. OR...... they know it's a fake and get angry because someone knows the difference between fakes, autopens, and originals. But then again there are always the sellers who had no idea and removed the item. It takes all kinds. Hope this helps scout. From The Last Frontier......... Mike
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scout706
Member Posts: 166
From: Phoenix, AZ USA
Registered: May 2002
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posted 08-13-2002 11:30 PM
This is the message I got from the "Reputable dealer" I guess I hit a nerve!!!-----Original Message-----
From: TmuellerA@aol.com [mailto:TmuellerA@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 13 August, 2002 20:06
To: kermit@1s.net
Subject: Re: Question for seller -- Item #2129251744 It is really difficult to take people such as yourself seriously. You come across in such an unprofessional way why would anyone believe you? You'd explain why you think you may be correct and not be too scared to sign your name. Since you do neither and act in the manner you are we will just right you off as a nobody. If you honestly believe you are correct, be professional and if we believe you we will yank it and not allow it to sell. We bought this from knowledgeable astronaut expert Kent Nolen. Therefore we had no problem with it as it was signed in thick large ink unlike most of the other signed Collins items. Not only did you come across like a big giant nobody but you than jump to the major conclusion that we are doing this intentionally. Your a big waste of time and how should any honorable dealer respond to an email such as yours? Come on! Todd Mueller Autographs, Inc. Oh, and to Todd Mueller, My name is Thomas Griggs,
[This message has been edited by scout706 (edited August 13, 2002).] [This message has been edited by scout706 (edited August 13, 2002).] |
Werb
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posted 08-14-2002 12:28 AM
I'd say that was more than one nerve. Either he's in denial, or he got mad someone saw through it all.
A reputable dealer would never act that way. At least I have never seen that from one. And to think I bought something from him. ( I know it's genuine......... but his reply to scout makes me think twice before dealing with a guy like that. ) Just my 2 cents.
From The Last Frontier.........
Mike
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Bob M
Member Posts: 1745
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 08-16-2002 01:51 PM
I've been in contact with the collector who Todd M. obtained the Mike Collins signed
Apollo 11 crew photo from. I'm told that the
Collins signature resulted from a mail-in
request to Collins about 15 years ago. Since
it is an atypical Collins signature, it may
have been signed by someone else at his office & could be called a "secretarial." Bob Mc. |
Werb
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posted 08-16-2002 02:04 PM
I can see it both ways. Many of us think it looks funny, and have every right to feel that way. It's our thinking. However I can see that the seller of this item is trying to stick to what he was told by the person he bought it from. It's only natural that he do so, and become a bit nasty over it. But this guy does seem a bit more on edge than usual. I've seen some other sellers and what they responded with, but this guy.... WOW!!! I will admit I have gotten to see a bit more than most, and this guy wants everyone ot consider him a upstanding dealer. But with some of what has been stated... I would put him in the category of plain rude. Just my 2 cents worth. ( As everyone has an opinion. ) From The Last Frontier...... Mike |
Bob M
Member Posts: 1745
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 08-16-2002 02:33 PM
Yeah, the main concern of this thread is becoming not so much if the Collins signature
is authentic or not, but the attitude of the
big autograph company with over 5,000 transactions on eBay. You would expect that its response to a question about the
authenticity of one of its eBay offerings
would have been a little more professional. Bob Mc. |
GerryM
Member Posts: 244
From: Glenside PA
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 08-16-2002 05:30 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Werb:
All I can say is that it doesn't look like the Mike Collins I have. Any of the Experts care to check???From The Last Frontier........ Mike
Its a forgery. Sadly someone paid 140.00 for it. Oh well,,,,someone will learn the hard way.
Its not a bargain unless its real. Too many collectors get swept away with the idea getting a "steal" and thinking they are smarter than the rest and end up basically being the ones who get "stolen" from on EBAY. Good luck to that collector getting his or her money back!! I would be very curious to know if they have any difficulty in getting their money back with his 100% gurantee he issues.
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Werb
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posted 08-16-2002 05:39 PM
From what I have seen, I doubt very highly that his 100 % guaruntee means much. It's sad.
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Russ Still
Member Posts: 535
From: Atlanta, GA USA
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-17-2002 04:45 PM
And even if the Collins is real, wouldn't a high-powered and ethical dealer refrain from offering it based soley on its atypical apearance? These questionable ones will probably never be identified with 100% certainty. Thus, a smart collector would not want it in his collection. If you ask me, it speaks poorly of Todd Mueller's company for even offering it. |
scout706
Member Posts: 166
From: Phoenix, AZ USA
Registered: May 2002
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posted 08-18-2002 10:40 PM
I opened this thread because I had a question about that "signature" I have since been the recipient of a 4 day email attack. I have shared these off list with Werb. I am thinking that everyone who collects should see what this "dealer" is really all about. If any one is interested, please email me off-list. or maybe it is better to do this in a publice forum? Any thoughts???
Tom |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-19-2002 03:49 AM
Tom, it is against board policy for personal e-mails to be posted without permission of both of the sender and recepient. |
Rob Sumowski
Member Posts: 466
From: Macon, Georgia
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted 08-19-2002 10:57 PM
I agree completely, fellas. Russ brings up a good point- If it even could be perceived as a fake, why would a reputable dealer list it, knowing that authenticity (and the dealer's reputation) always would be questioned?While others seem to bid and re-bid with this company, I had a horrible experience with him last year and will never again bid on anything offered by him. And what's the point in calling anybody a "nobody?" How many people do you know who will use that kind of language, no matter how heated the argument? This fellow is pretty arrogant. Food for thought:
Is Mueller a member of UACC? If so, might their code of ethics address the way they treat potential customers? Rob |
WAWalsh
Member Posts: 809
From: Cortlandt Manor, NY
Registered: May 2000
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posted 08-20-2002 09:20 AM
As a counterpoint, to a degree, on this, there is no question that these folks are generalists and probably attempt to ascertain whether or not the autograph seems legit (or rely on the person selling it to them) and then put it up on eBay. I have contacted them twice in the middle of auctions and noted that the item that they were selling appeared to be an autopen, based on a comparison of the image. Each time they pulled the item and thanked me for letting them know. While you have to be careful with them, the occasional deal comes up as well. I just picked up from them what certainly appears to be a perfectly good Pete Conrad autograph for a low price. |
Tom Steiner
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posted 09-20-2002 05:24 PM
Atypical autographs CAN be real ..... over the years I have seen dozens of legitimite Alan Shepard autogrphed items ..... when Shepard came to a local book signing when his book came out I watched him sign items as I waited for my turn and if you were to show ANY of those signatures to "autograph experts" they would ALL say they were laughable forgeries BUT I SAW him sign them (and have one to prove it) .... where, when, and how make all the difference in the world of how an autograph looks. Sadly, if I were to see MY Shepard signed item on e-bay I wouldn't buy it either because it "doesn't look right"!------------------
Tom S. |
Werb
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posted 09-20-2002 06:04 PM
I have to aggree with Tom on the fact that it really does matter where the person doing the signing happens to be. There is a definite difference if the signature is written quickly, and so on. I also believe that it also depends on the mood of the person doing the signing too. Maybe sometimes it isn't best to come to the conclution that just because it's sloppy, it's not real. Now........ who wants my poor handwriting autograph? <G> That's what I thought...... no takers. Oh Well, have a good weekend!From The Last Frontier...... Mike
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Paul
Member Posts: 201
From: Duluth,Ga.
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 09-20-2002 10:28 PM
Tom, I went to a couple of Alan Shepard booksignings in 1994 (for the "Moonshot"book)
and I have to agree with you. Big crowd and
quick signatures!
If I hadn't actually seen Shepard sign my books, I would not believe the autographs
were genuine!
BTW, welcome to collectSPACE!!
Paul [This message has been edited by Paul (edited September 20, 2002).] |
Russ Still
Member Posts: 535
From: Atlanta, GA USA
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-21-2002 08:57 AM
Point well taken about atypical autographs - just because they look horrible doesn't mean they are fakes. But although you can't be sure that an atypical autograph is forged, you CAN be sure that it will always be questionable. And that really is the point. An ethical dealer doesn't go around selling questionable material, defending it as if it is UNquestionable. I've heard the old argument so many times I could recite it in my sleep: "Well maybe he was rushed when he signed it, or he didn't have something stable to write on." Yeah, maybe so, but "maybe" is the operative word. Do you want to buy from a dealer who thinks that "maybe" is good enough??
www.russellstill.com
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