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Author
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Topic: Payments via PayPal: A courtesy for buyers
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Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42987
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 06-02-2016 01:54 PM
   
Recently, I have heard from readers and members a concern regarding the use of PayPal for sales completed through this forum. Specifically, they have said that it would help if sellers would note in their listings if the fees were the responsibility of the seller or the buyer (i.e. in the case of the latter, using the Friends and Family option).While I don't think this merits a rule, I did agree to share their suggestion here. It would be a courtesy to buyers if sellers would identify their PayPal fees preference when also noting shipping costs and other terms of sale. Thank you. |
rgarner
Member Posts: 1193
From: Shepperton, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 06-02-2016 02:00 PM
I'll do this on all future posts, it is a good idea. |
cfreeze79
Member Posts: 455
From: Herndon, VA, USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 06-02-2016 03:07 PM
However...The "Friends & Family" option does NOT allow refund recourse in the event of a problem, so that merits disclosure, in my opinion (and because PayPal doesn't tell you that upfront). |
stsmithva
Member Posts: 1933
From: Fairfax, VA, USA
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 06-02-2016 05:46 PM
Yes, the no refunds if friends and family is a very important consideration. Of course we'd honestly like to think that cS is a happy family, but you know what they say about doing business with family. That being said, I've been OK with sending such payments to long-standing cS members with a history of honest deals. |
p51
Member Posts: 1642
From: Olympia, WA
Registered: Sep 2011
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posted 06-02-2016 05:59 PM
Uh, yeah... I wouldn't be doing that. How about it being made clear to anyone selling here that you just price it so you don't feel robbed when PayPal gets its cut, and the seller also has a recourse if the deal goes bad for any reason? Wouldn't that solve all the problems? |
fredtrav
Member Posts: 1673
From: Birmingham AL
Registered: Aug 2010
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posted 06-02-2016 06:28 PM
If I take payment via PayPal, I give the buyer the option of using Friends with the disclosure that there is no recourse, or I tell them what the fee will be. If it is an item I am selling, I figure that they are going to use the regular, if I am doing a favor, like the 20 or so Aldrin signed books I got for people, then they get the choice. I was not making a profit on them, and to do a favor, I am not going to lose money either. |
Chuckster01
Member Posts: 873
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: Jan 2014
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posted 06-02-2016 06:43 PM
I will only do the friends and family with people I trust. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42987
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 06-02-2016 07:24 PM
quote:
Originally posted by p51:
Wouldn't that solve all the problems?
Whatever reason people have in choosing to use Friends and Family is their own. I am not going to prevent its use here. Buyers have the choice to reply or not to reply to an offer where the friends option is requested. If you do not feel comfortable using that method, you can contact the seller and inquire (politely) if they will work with you, or you can pass on the offer. |
neo1022
Member Posts: 281
From: Santa Monica, CA
Registered: Jun 2013
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posted 06-02-2016 07:41 PM
This seems like a pretty basic issue: If a seller wants the convenience and security of instant payment, they pay a 3-4% fee. Stores do this all the time, as do small merchants taking credit card payments — it is, quite literally, the price of business. If you know the minimum you need to get for an item, factor that into your pricing so you come out where you need to be after fees. In my opinion, it is not a legitimate options to ask a buyer to sacrifice their basic consumer protections (in the even of fraud, damage, etc) in what is, after all, a contractual business transaction. The buyer is already in a structurally vulnerable position inasmuch as they have to part with their money and trust that the seller will come through. The seller, in contrast, is in a position of guaranteed safety precisely because of services like PayPal—at no point are they vulnerable, as they receive the buyer's money before parting with their items. Of course, all this may be moot in the case of trusted buyers, but I won't complete a first-time transaction with someone who asks me to send payment via friends & family. |
albatron
Member Posts: 2732
From: Stuart, Florida
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted 06-02-2016 08:10 PM
I think the best recourse you have is the seller not wanting to be embarrassed here.Anyway F&F is certainly a preference. On eBay I always offer a no questions asked refund — I see no difference in selling here — I'd do the same. I have only had one issue on eBay with refunds, and that's been recently when someone manipulated the system and filed a complaint to get me to pay for return shipping (he complained a book received shipping damage that I now see did not so I'm stymied why he even said that) and instead of asking for a refund which, I had already offered, he dishonestly filed his request as "Item Not As Described." This caused me to have to pay return shipping costs as items damaged in shipping the buyer pays. My only point here is, F&F or fees aside, make sure it's all agreed who pays shipping on returns/refunds, etc. as well. |
SpaceyInMN
Member Posts: 355
From: Andover, MN
Registered: Dec 2013
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posted 06-02-2016 09:46 PM
I've only sold two items through this forum that I can recall, but I've bought numerous. I've had sellers request PayPal payments of both types, from both American and international sellers from Ireland, Italy, and Canada. So far, everything has been expected, and very smooth transactions. Obviously, there can be bad apples in every bunch, but as a semi-regular buyer since joining two and a half years ago, I feel confident in stating that the cS sellers have been honest and reliable to a fault. I have no problem with either payment method, as long as terms are set up front. |
Skythings
Member Posts: 243
From:
Registered: Jun 2014
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posted 06-03-2016 08:50 PM
quote:
Originally posted by neo1022:
The seller, in contrast, is in a position of guaranteed safety precisely because of services like PayPal — at no point are they vulnerable, as they receive the buyer's money before parting with their items.
Sorry to disagree with you on this point. I just recently sold a model airplane through a similar forum to a person and they paid me with PayPal. I shipped the item to the confirmed address indicated on the PayPal payment. The Post Office could not find the address he gave me and returned the item back to me. I had to pay the return postage to get the item back. The buyer then asked for a full refund. Turns out it was not his address and he was overseas and was sending it to a friends place the Post Office couldn't find. I offered him a refund for the item less both shipping charges which he refused. He filed a claim with PayPal and most people do not realize the process with both eBay and PayPal is 100% towards the buyer, not the seller. In fact there is no process, the refund is always given to the buyer. I lost and I am out some $60 because he had the address wrong. So your comments about guaranteed safety for the seller I am sorry to say is not accurate. |
Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member Posts: 3445
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 06-03-2016 09:39 PM
Did you fight it? If it was the address on the PayPal account, and it was a verified address, then it would seem the onus is on the buyer, not the seller. (It may be a small thing, but I never clean up an address to postal standards. If they have the apartment number separate on the third line, rather than as part of the street address, e.g., 123 Main St #2A, I leave it.) |
cfreeze79
Member Posts: 455
From: Herndon, VA, USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 06-04-2016 02:02 AM
Last I checked - in the US - sellers can't impose a surcharge for PayPal or credit card service, BUT they can offer a discount for cash and other methods. And to upcharge also violates PayPal's terms of service, if I recall correctly. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42987
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 06-04-2016 06:52 AM
As of Jan. 27, 2013, it has been legal in the U.S. for merchants to add up to 4% surcharge for the use of credit cards, though conditions apply and 10 states still prohibit it.PayPal's policy is as follows: You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions. Using the Friends & Family option is not imposing a surcharge and there are no fees if the sender funds the payment from their bank account. That said and as others have noted, the option does not offer purchase protections as the Goods & Services option does. |
Skythings
Member Posts: 243
From:
Registered: Jun 2014
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posted 06-04-2016 09:46 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Hart Sastrowardoyo:
Did you fight it?
Yes, I did fight it. Sent in all the receipts, pictures of the returned parcel, tracking number. Logic would say in any courtroom it would be a slam dunk for my case, but not with PayPal. They said after considerable consideration, but the fact is they couldn't possibly have enough staff available to sift through the thousands of complaints they receive daily. It's all an automated process done with a computer and the seller never wins. |
albatron
Member Posts: 2732
From: Stuart, Florida
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted 06-04-2016 10:05 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Skythings:
It's all an automated process done with a computer and the seller never wins.
Yessir - try to speak to a real human. I finally did in my case, and the guy consistently read from a script. I pointed out everything in the eBay rules in my favor - and he read a script. |
neo1022
Member Posts: 281
From: Santa Monica, CA
Registered: Jun 2013
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posted 06-06-2016 06:36 PM
Skythings, what you say is true in the case of fraudulent buyers, but if you're that concerned, don't conduct business online. You'll have the same potential risks when selling on eBay no matter what form of payment you choose to accept. The risks you outline do not bear on the question at hand — whether it is kosher to expect buyers to relinquish their protections in order to enhance seller profits. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42987
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 06-06-2016 08:36 PM
Technically, there is no question at hand. For the purposes of collectSPACE's Buy, Sell, Trade forum, sellers may choose to use PayPal however they wish (within the terms of service of PayPal). Sellers can choose to do business with them or not. We are not going to police how people use PayPal or accept any other type of payment. |
Skythings
Member Posts: 243
From:
Registered: Jun 2014
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posted 06-07-2016 09:31 AM
quote:
Originally posted by neo1022:
You'll have the same potential risks when selling on eBay no matter what form of payment you choose to accept.
I fully accept the risks and sell regularly on eBay. I was simply contradicting a statement made by another poster whom I believed was not correct. I never said anything regarding one should never accept PayPal or sell on eBay.Consider it a caution from my own personal experience which was spot on the topic being discussed. Sellers have more risks than buyers with PayPal and eBay. Robert is correct — use it as you see fit. |
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