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Author
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Topic: WTB: Mercury flown heat shield blocks
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rgarner
Member Posts: 1193
From: Shepperton, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 07-14-2015 07:03 AM
   
I am looking to buy flown blocks similar to the below (ideally not encased in Lucite but will take it if need be) with documentation/provenance. Please email me with photographs, measurements and prices.I am looking for the following missions: - Freedom 7
- Liberty Bell 7
- Friendship 7
- Faith 7
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rgarner
Member Posts: 1193
From: Shepperton, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 07-14-2015 07:08 AM
Also looking for any type of metal from: - Mercury Atlas 2
- Mercury Atlas 3
- Mercury Atlas 4
- Mercury Atlas 5
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SpaceAholic
Member Posts: 4437
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 07-14-2015 10:09 AM
No such blocks could/would exist for Liberty Bell 7 — its heat shield was never recovered and was non-ablative (beryllium), as was Freedom 7's. |
rgarner
Member Posts: 1193
From: Shepperton, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 07-14-2015 11:32 AM
Thank you for the information. I will accept any flown material from either mission in that case, ideally something metal. |
rgarner
Member Posts: 1193
From: Shepperton, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 08-23-2015 09:33 AM
Still looking for all of the above. I noted that my last comment was ''metal'' from the missions, but I am happy with any ''material'' from said missions as well as Heatshield blocks. |
Joel Katzowitz
Member Posts: 808
From: Marietta GA USA
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 08-23-2015 06:43 PM
I sent you an email regarding your search for Mercury flown items. |
SpaceAholic
Member Posts: 4437
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-23-2015 10:50 PM
Unfortunately heat-shield components are precluded from U.S. export except under very specific circumstances as they fall within the Arms Control Act. As codified within the U.S. Munitions List Part 121.1: (19) Spacecraft heat shields or heat sinks specially designed for atmospheric entry or re-entry, and specially designed parts and components therefor (MT if usable in rockets, SLVs, missiles, drones, or UAVs capable of delivering a payload of at least 500 kg to a range of at least 300 km) |
rgarner
Member Posts: 1193
From: Shepperton, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 08-24-2015 03:53 AM
I have to question that as reputable auction houses sell them to buyers outside the US. I know full space shuttle tiles fall under that category, albeit in an extremely outdated law, but heat shield is freely sold worldwide. |
SpaceAholic
Member Posts: 4437
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-24-2015 09:55 AM
Any U.S. entity (individual or organization) who does so risks enforcement action (can be retroactive - no statute of limitations) which admittedly has been inconsistent. However there is current relevance to ITAR/Munition list export restrictions (discussion falls outside the parameters of this thread).
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rgarner
Member Posts: 1193
From: Shepperton, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 08-24-2015 10:20 AM
It does make me wonder if NASA ever follows up on this kind of thing. I've never seen any shuttle tiles or any other such materials confiscated, or even heard stories of it — it is so much like the fabled "slipping on a banana peel"! I know that moon rocks have been confiscated before now, and for good reason.Still, I can't see questionable data preventing or even deterring anyone selling or buying these materials. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42987
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-24-2015 10:39 AM
It is not NASA's responsibility to police ITAR transgressions for material it legally released to U.S. citizens (or that its contractors released). The State Department oversees ITAR.Apollo recovered moon rocks have never been gifted to individuals, so they remain federal property, hence NASA's involvement (and even then, it usually involves the U.S. Department of Justice and other agencies). That said, shuttle tiles and other heat shield samples have been confiscated due to ITAR violations. It is not a situation you want to find yourself in. (Note that Kapton foil is not considered heat shield material.) |
rgarner
Member Posts: 1193
From: Shepperton, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 08-24-2015 12:39 PM
I'd love to read some case reports on this, are any public knowledge?I'm not recommending anyone goes and breaks the law, by any means, but what I am saying is that it won't deter people (not in my experience anyway). That said, I am still looking for any Mercury materials, heatshield or otherwise. And for the record, they would remain in the US. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42987
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-24-2015 12:45 PM
The cases of which I am aware were not reported in the media, in part because the people involved cooperated with authorities.Note that ITAR doesn't only require that the material remain in the U.S., but that it can only be sold to U.S. citizens. Personally, I am in favor of ITAR reform, but until Congress acts on that, the rules are what they are. |
rgarner
Member Posts: 1193
From: Shepperton, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 08-24-2015 12:53 PM
I find, at least in the UK, that such authorities very rarely go back in time to change anything and when they do it is because they are forced to by government. I imagine it is the same in the US. |
SpaceAholic
Member Posts: 4437
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-24-2015 01:11 PM
The Export Control Reform (ECR) initiative is migrating some space technology off the USML however it will not grant relief to dual use technologies like thermal protection system components (heat shields). Good laydown of the ECR's scope. |
rgarner
Member Posts: 1193
From: Shepperton, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 08-24-2015 01:16 PM
Well I'll be. Still doesn't help with me being a Brit and wanting Mercury materials though!  It just makes my Mercury collection that much harder to accumulate. Still, I'm not one to shy away from a challenge.(Thanks for the links SpaceAholic, I like to keep up to date with this type of thing!) |
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