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  Air Force imagery confirms...

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Author Topic:   Air Force imagery confirms...
Rizz
Member

Posts: 1208
From: Upcountry, Maui, Hawaii
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 02-07-2003 07:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rizz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/sts107/030207avweek/

astronut
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Posts: 969
From: South Fork, CO
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 02-07-2003 07:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for astronut   Click Here to Email astronut     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Actually it confirms nothing as of yet. Ron Dittamore (I hope I spelled that right) says in today's news conference that the image has yet to be analyzed by the investigation team. Like he said it may be showing something but they don't know yet, they want to find a similar image from an earlier flight to compare it to.

------------------
Happy trails,
Wayno
"...you are go for TLI."
www.TransLunarInjection.com

Rizz
Member

Posts: 1208
From: Upcountry, Maui, Hawaii
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 02-07-2003 07:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rizz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It confirms some sort of an artifact or anomaly on the left wing prior to the break up.

Rizz

Looks like they removed the image.

[This message has been edited by Rizz (edited February 16, 2003).]

tegwilym
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Posts: 2284
From: Renton, WA USA
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 02-07-2003 10:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tegwilym   Click Here to Email tegwilym     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here is the new image...
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/shuttle/investigation/sensors/index.html

astronut
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Posts: 969
From: South Fork, CO
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 02-07-2003 11:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for astronut   Click Here to Email astronut     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It confirms nothing. The original article you posted is the opinion of a reporter. Might it be right though? Who knows, as I've said elsewhere it's sheer speculation.

Every Tom, Dick, & Harry reporter out there is putting forward their own opinions on virtually nonexistent data at this point. A fuzzy photo where each pixel is covering several FEET of the craft at an unknown angle don't tell us much...yet. Sure it may help us later but lets don't give credence to the useless speculation that is coming from less than fully informed reporters. Take these reports with a grain of salt folks. Let NASA do it's work.

------------------
Happy trails,
Wayno
"...you are go for TLI."
www.TransLunarInjection.com

WAWalsh
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Posts: 791
From: Cortlandt Manor, NY
Registered: May 2000

posted 02-08-2003 07:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for WAWalsh   Click Here to Email WAWalsh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Rizz, while it may well confirm damage in the end, the official position as of this morning is that it is too early to tell. The only aspect of potential damage is an apparent bulge at the lead edge of the wing, but that could just as easily be a heat mirage. The apparent vapor trailing off the wing is a little more disconcerting, but would be more an indicator of damage.

The conspiracy theorists will love the aspect in the Times which stated that the observatory typically does not photograph the shuttle as it lands and does not know why it was asked to do so this time.

Rizz
Member

Posts: 1208
From: Upcountry, Maui, Hawaii
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 02-08-2003 12:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rizz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My apologies.

It was just speculation on my part, and there is no room for speculation.

We'll let NASA do their job, and wait for the official report.

Rizz

Rizz
Member

Posts: 1208
From: Upcountry, Maui, Hawaii
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 08-26-2003 11:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rizz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, the reports out and on page 60, they talk about the orbiter hitting the foam at a relative velocity of 545 mph.

On page 71 they reveal that the above mentioned image shows an unusual condition (an anomaly) on the left wing; a leading edge disturbance, indicating possible damage.

Several analysts concluded that the distortion evident in the image, likely came from the modification and interaction of shock waves due to the damaged leading edge.

The overall appearance of the leading-edge damage at this point on the trajectory is consistent with the scenario.


Imagine what the outcome might have been had Columbia been imaged extensively from ground-based telescopes and space surveillance satellites immeadiately after the foam impact was discovered.

Imagine having a leader like Gene Kranz and his team, working in the days and nights ahead on coming up with a plan to safely bring the crew home.

Imaging would have definately played an important role in the discovery and extent of damage on the orbiter.

Fuzzy pictures and anomalies, to a trained eye, can in fact reveal alot of data.

Unfortunately, according to the report, there were numerous breakdowns in communication all along the way.

It all just comes down to accountability, in my opinion.

Check out this link, it discusses STS 87 Post Flight inspection:


http://quest.arc.nasa.gov/people/journals/space/katnik/sts87-12-23.html


No room for compromising here.

I hope that this CAIB report serves as a wake up call!

We have GOT to get it together!

Rizz

[This message has been edited by Rizz (edited August 27, 2003).]

Cliff Lentz
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Posts: 639
From: Philadelphia, PA USA
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 08-27-2003 09:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cliff Lentz   Click Here to Email Cliff Lentz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I haven't read the report yet. It will probably take a while to download, but I'll have it for the holiday weekend. From the Press conferences I saw on C-Span last night, The board seemed to praise NASA , but pointed out procedures that they would change. The good news is that they think the Shuttle can continue and they encourgae the production of the next generation spacecraft as I'm sure all of us do as well.

I'm a little concerned that they seem not to equate budgetary restraths with safety procedures. If you apply this to the ISS, is it safe to depend on the Russian spacecrafts as a rescue vehicle? Why are we not continuing to develop such a vehicle and would one be applicable on Shuttle flights?

The major steps towards return to flight are adjustments to the ET stack, In-flight damage accessments, either by the crew or by satellite or earth-bound telescopes, and Repair capability. The last point may be the toughest to innitiate. A whole in the leading edge the size of what we saw on the test firing of the foam during the boards' investigation would be very difficult to repair.

The report also seems to attack the NASA culture as a fault of the accident. I think of this as being a result of NASA being born out of the Test pilot mentallity, getting used to taking risks and hanging it out over the edge. Spaceflight is never going to be absolutely safe. Clearly we have a way to go, but I think this report will be a positive thing. To bad it couldn't have happened before the accident.

Well, I'm off to download, Happy reading!

Cliff

pokey
Member

Posts: 345
From: Houston, TX, USA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 08-27-2003 03:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pokey   Click Here to Email pokey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The question I haven't seen posed by the media yet is:
Would Linda Ham have made the same decision over the DOD photos if her husband, Ken Ham, was on STS-107?

Somehow I think she would have made the same decision.

DavidH
Member

Posts: 1181
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted 08-27-2003 04:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DavidH   Click Here to Email DavidH     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And just playing the devil's advocate, but for the past 7 months, how many times have I heard the sentiment echoed above... What would Kranz have done? What would the good old days NASA have done?
Was it just me, or watching Failure Is Not An Option Sunday, did I not hear Kranz say TWICE that they didn't do anything about possible heat shield problems, because if they heat shield was damaged, there was nothing they could do?

Rizz
Member

Posts: 1208
From: Upcountry, Maui, Hawaii
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 08-27-2003 06:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rizz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DavidH:
Was it just me, or watching Failure Is Not An Option Sunday, did I not hear Kranz say TWICE that they didn't do anything about possible heat shield problems, because if they heat shield was damaged, there was nothing they could do?


Good point.

Keep in mind however that Mercury, Gemini & Apollo were all "capsules"
and didn't have the luxury of being able to sustain an Earth orbit for 16 days.

16 days.

Thats an awful lot of time to positively identify the damage and to come up with a workable plan.

This is known as accountability or competency.

Lets not take things (like foam debris) for granted. (see link 4 posts up).

I still find it hard to believe that no one at NASA took the initiative to demand that all eyes (camera's & sensors) be focused on Columbia just to make certain one way or another.

There's simply no excuse.

With the capabilities and resources at NASA's fingertips, there were in fact many options.

Since we already have perfected Earth orbit rendezvous and EVA's, seems like maybe there could have been a very real possibility to rescue the crew after all.

I honestly believe they could have accomplished that.

Where there is a will there's a way!

Rizz

[This message has been edited by Rizz (edited August 28, 2003).]

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