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Author
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Topic: Sold: Grissom/MR-4 USS Randolph PRS cover
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Bob M
Member Posts: 1744
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 05-06-2016 01:00 PM
   
An autographed Gus Grissom Mercury-Redstone 4 (MR-4) USS Randolph prime recovery ship (PRS) cover was recently sold by RR Auction for $16,541! Its pre-auction estimated value was $1,500-$2,000 and I expected it to sell for between $3,000 and $5,000. Evidently at least two determined/stubborn bidders battled each other over this very rare cover, thus raising its price to an extreme level. Surely the winner is a serious collector wanting it for his collection, as at that price it wouldn't be a good investment. I bring this up, as I'm surprised I've not seen any mention or discussion about this spectacular cover being sold for such an extreme — even unrealistic — amount. I would think that this cover possibly now holds the record for the highest price paid for a "standard" space cover, excluding flown covers and Apollo insurance covers. This cover was sold by pioneer collector EV Smith in 1979 to another collector for around $275 and the lucky owner and consignor — not me — has done very well with that small investment. Perhaps another desirable crew signed cover will also do well, as a very nice rare GT-3 (Grissom/Young) crew signed cover is available in the current Regency-Superior auction (Lot 64). Authentic GT-3 crew signed covers are hard to find and it'll be interesting to see what this desirable cover brings - but surely only a fraction of what the MR-4/Grissom cover sold for. |
NAAmodel#240
Member Posts: 312
From: Boston, Mass.
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted 05-08-2016 08:04 PM
I wonder if Charles Riser ever faked an address? |
Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member Posts: 3445
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 05-08-2016 10:03 PM
That would be interesting. I suppose one could add the address of a well-known collector, as otherwise the alternative would be to pick out a name out of the phone book, add the correct postal code, and hope nobody writes a letter stating, "Never heard of you or your collection; who are you and what's your relation to the cover I just bought with your name and address?" |
Bob M
Member Posts: 1744
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 05-09-2016 09:10 AM
My first thought when I saw this cover in the RR auction was that its similarity to Charles Riser fake covers (printed government envelopes) will discourage many potential bidders from bidding or at least keep bids low. Obviously, that didn't happen.The owner/consignor was Ken Havekotte and he can better give the history of this cover than I. The Grissom autograph was checked out by RR space authenticator Steve Zarelli and deemed authentic. While Riser was a skilled fake cancel creator, he was a fairly bad forger and his Grissom signatures I have examples of are fairly poor by today's standards. A copy I have of one of Riser's MR-4 USS Randolph fake covers has a poor Grissom signature, a bad Shepard fake and a bad "Best wishes - Wernher von Braun" fake. And his fake USS Randolph hand stamp cancel is applied much better. I would believe that Ken, having this cover for over 35 years, would have had it checked our and researched very well and was confident that it was legitimate and had no connection with Riser. |
NAAmodel#240
Member Posts: 312
From: Boston, Mass.
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted 05-09-2016 09:48 AM
I spent several seconds before hitting the "send" button.The knowledge and integrity of Ken and Steve (and RR for that matter) are beyond reproach. My muse was not about what they know but about how much remains unknown about the forgeries of Charles Riser.Experienced astrophilatelists think they can spot a Riser but I contend there is much that remains unclear. Would collectors be surprised if it were established that Riser faked postmarks on envelopes with stamps instead of embossed postage? How about faked machine cancels? How about low value, common Wallops Island launches? I would like to write a monograph to update our collective knowledge on Riser. Please contact me by email with interesting hi res scans or information which would help in this effort. |
Steve Zarelli
Member Posts: 731
From: Upstate New York, USA
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 05-09-2016 09:52 AM
I have many Charles Riser forged "Grissoms" in my files. You can find three such examples in my online Virgil "Gus" Grissom Autograph Study.As you can see, the Riser forgeries had a very distinctive angular look and he often significantly distorted the "Gs" among other formation issues. While the cover in question may bear similarities the those offered by Riser, the signature is undoubtedly authentic in my opinion and has none of the hallmarks of Riser's fakes. |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 2913
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 05-09-2016 11:56 AM
Thank you Steve and Bob! As pointed out in a prior posting here by Bob, the Randolph PRS cover had been purchased decades ago from a pioneer space cover collector, Dr. E. V. Smith of Fond du Lac, Wisconsin, that Bob and I had corresponded with throughout the mid/late 1970's. We were able to acquire many classic signed space covers from Dr. Smith, which included his only MR-4/Grissom signed USS Randolph prime recovery ship cover. While the cover does have a similarity or two with past-known Riser cover productions, Dr. Smith said he never dealt with Riser, and "his" Grissom-signed Randolph had no connections to Riser whatsoever. Before purchasing his only Grissom-signed Randolph prime ship cover, I did check out the Grissom signature on it along with the USS Randolph postal strike. The signature itself, in my opinion, is authentic in every way. The postmark strike appears to be an original on-board ship cancellation and not one of the Riser fakes, period. The Riser Randolph postal markings are indeed not the same — with many differences — than in comparison to an original MR-4 prime ship cover from July 1961. The postal ship cancel from RR's auctioned cover does resemble, by far in
my opinion, to an authentic on-board USS Randolph ship-posted cover for our nation's second manned spaceflight. I have no concerns or problems with it. Bottom line here for those in question of it possibly being a Riser production, the basic facts alone discredit any serious association to a Riser fraudulent cover. Let me add, if I may, that I have always felt Riser wasn't a highly-skilled signature forger of astronaut autographs (and of von Braun). Even early on during my high school collecting phase, I never did like many of his signed space covers. We did, though, correspond together during the later Apollo era when asking me to help with his "Signatures" newsletter and possibly to help cancel some of his regular space event covers. But never once did I purchase a signed cover from him! |
NAAmodel#240
Member Posts: 312
From: Boston, Mass.
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted 05-10-2016 08:50 AM
Apologies to anyone who felt that I was questioning either the cover or the autograph. |
Bob M
Member Posts: 1744
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 05-10-2016 09:47 AM
No problem. Your concern with a cover/autograph that is similar to those that have plagued the space hobby is quite understandable. Any such cover needs to be checked out quite well. |
Bob M
Member Posts: 1744
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 05-17-2016 08:03 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Bob M:
Perhaps another desirable crew signed cover will also do well, as a very nice rare GT-3 (Grissom/Young) crew signed cover is available in the current Regency-Superior auction (Lot 64).
The GT-3 (Grissom/Young) crew signed cover in the Stonely/Regency auction (lot 64) sold for a very impressive $4,200, showing the rarity and desirability of GT-3 crew signed covers.Collector Stonely had a number of also rare/desirable GT-8 (Armstrong/Scott) crew signed covers and hopefully some of these will appear in the next Stonely/Regency auction. |
astrobv
Member Posts: 53
From: Geraardsbergen, Belgium
Registered: May 2014
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posted 05-18-2016 12:53 PM
These are prices that are not human anymore. Even paintings won't go this prices from famous painters.Everyone be conscious of the prices, that is not normal anymore. |
cvrlvr99
Member Posts: 139
From: Arlington, TX
Registered: Aug 2014
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posted 05-18-2016 06:41 PM
The sale of the GT-3 signed launch cover was listed as $3,500 plus 22% to Regency. There were two other GT-3 signed SRS covers. One went for $900 and the other for $950, again plus 22%. I last had my chance at one in 2010 and my $2400 didn't get that one which sold then for $3600. But I did land the $900 one this time, which finally completes my goal of having crew signed covers for every U.S. manned space mission through ASTP. It took me four decades! |
fredtrav
Member Posts: 1673
From: Birmingham AL
Registered: Aug 2010
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posted 05-18-2016 06:46 PM
Congratulations. |
Joel Katzowitz
Member Posts: 808
From: Marietta GA USA
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 05-18-2016 07:24 PM
Congratulations Ray!!! That's what I call perseverance! |
Bob M
Member Posts: 1744
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 05-19-2016 07:30 AM
quote:
Originally posted by astrobv:
These are prices that are not human anymore. Even paintings won't go this prices from famous painters.
Certainly the $16,500 for the Grissom signed MR-4 USS Randolph cover was excessive and was probably the result of 2-3 determined bidders battling each other for it. Realistically, in my opinion, $5,000 would have been about right. But as far as the sale of space material, as you mentioned, I'm afraid space material has a very long way to go before space sales reach the sales price levels of paintings. Paintings by famous artists typically sell in the millions and just one example is the sale a few years ago of a Norman Rockwell original painting for a Saturday Evening Post magazine cover that sold for $47 million (He typically was paid $3,500 for his covers). |
Apollo-Soyuz
Member Posts: 1205
From: Shady Side, Md
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 06-01-2016 07:29 AM
I do not know if anybody thought to do this. You should put an ultraviolet light on the back of the cover to see if the postal inspectors mark is present. The inspector used the letter "H" on the back of the postal stationary that Riser bought. If cover came back with cancels and autographs, cover had to be faked. |
NAAmodel#240
Member Posts: 312
From: Boston, Mass.
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted 06-07-2016 07:49 AM
While the secret mark would establish an envelope as a Riser forgery the likelihood of finding them is small. I have more than 40 Risers and only one with an "H". |
Bob M
Member Posts: 1744
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 06-07-2016 09:05 AM
That's a good suggestion, John, but it's unknown who bought the Grissom signed MR-4 USS Randolph cover in the RR auction, so it can't be checked, unless the buyer sees and is alerted by this discussion. But, as mentioned, Riser, while an excellent creator of fake cancels, wasn't a very good forger and the Riser Grissom forgeries I've seen on his covers are fairly poor. The Grissom autograph on the RR cover is very consistent with his standard authentic autographs and has been checked out by many. But, yes, it would be good to have the cover checked out with an ultraviolet light, but the marked envelopes were probably only a small number of the government envelopes that Riser used to create his fakes (as indicated by David, who has over 40 Risers, but with only one having the secret "H" mark). |
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