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Author Topic:   STS-4 / Columbia mission patch
OV-105
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From: Ridgecrest, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 01-04-2006 03:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for OV-105   Click Here to Email OV-105     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For me, STS-4 is the shuttle program's plainest patch. Anyone know who made the one where Hartsfield's name curves up and is not inline with Mattingly's? It is not the 3 inch patch but a 4 inch patch.

GoesTo11
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From: Denver, CO USA
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posted 07-28-2008 01:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GoesTo11   Click Here to Email GoesTo11     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just bought a full-sized STS-4 patch, but without the finished edge common to most patches currently manufactured by AB.

I know there is/was a smaller variation with the crew names "curved" as opposed to horizontal as commonly seen now, and without the finished edge (there's a picture on Jacques' site). How common is this version? Has anyone seen an example of this for sale anywhere recently? Thanks!

Voyager1975
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posted 03-18-2009 03:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Voyager1975   Click Here to Email Voyager1975     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Maybe someone can clear this up for me. Did the early/original AB Emblem STS-4 mission patch have the heavy/thick red border like the current AB Emblem patch? I have seen older STS-4 patches that have just a thin red outline around the patch. What does the early AB Emblem patch look like?

robsouth
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From: West Midlands, UK
Registered: Jun 2005

posted 03-18-2009 04:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for robsouth     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As far as I am aware the STS-4 patch worn by the crew during the mission on their pressure suits had a red border.

Voyager1975
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posted 03-18-2009 05:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Voyager1975   Click Here to Email Voyager1975     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I know, but I think their crew patch only had a thin red outline around the edges.

hoorenz
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From: The Netherlands
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posted 03-19-2009 01:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for hoorenz   Click Here to Email hoorenz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thin red outline. The border was added later in souvenir versions.

Kevin T. Randall
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From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
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posted 04-09-2012 02:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin T. Randall   Click Here to Email Kevin T. Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have been in communication with Chris Spain (CrewPatches.com) this afternoon about this item and about this STS-4 patch variant.

This STS-4 patch variant at the present time is not a 'crew' patch until positive high-res photos from the mission showing the patches worn by the crew in enough detail to identify if they used this particular patch or not. So until we have these photos this is just one variant patch among many.

Dose anyone here have the STS-4 Retro Space Images disc to help us with the high-res photos?

I have been looking through all my examples of original AB Emblem STS-4 patches produced at the time of this mission. I have only found one example of this 'crew' variant patch with the light red/pink infill at the fold of the vapour trail. All the others were the normal souvenir versions.
It has now been established that the twill backing cloth used was mainly white, but red twill backing cloth examples also exist, but in much smaller numbers.
This variant STS-4 'crew' patch is slightly smaller than it's souvenir equivalent.


Editor's note: Threads merged.

Kevin T. Randall
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From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
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posted 04-09-2012 02:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin T. Randall   Click Here to Email Kevin T. Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Many thanks J.L. for sending me the high-res crew photos. I have forwarded them on to Chris.

hoorenz
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From: The Netherlands
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posted 04-09-2012 02:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hoorenz   Click Here to Email hoorenz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Now that we are discussing STS-4, I also have a couple of patches with curved names. Does anyone know the history of that version?

Oh, and let me add that I also found the version with the pink part in my collection. And that, interestingly enough, it originally came from the same owner as the STS-3 crew patch.

To my own surprise, I also happen to own the STS-4 picture CD. All the patches, worn on pressure suits, blue flight suits, caps and even by support crew are with the pink insert. I do not know what the exact size is. If I remember correctly, I once read that a 5" version was also produced especially for the crew by AB Emblem.

mama04
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Posts: 128
From: Haarlem, N-H, Netherlands
Registered: Sep 2010

posted 04-09-2012 02:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mama04   Click Here to Email mama04     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you check the crew photo on spacefacts.de you can clearly see that it is the 'pink' version that they are wearing on their brown spacesuits.

Besixdouze
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From: Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire, United Kingdom
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posted 04-09-2012 02:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Besixdouze   Click Here to Email Besixdouze     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Have to say that looks more like a decal/print than a patch to me. No obvious stitching or twill.

mama04
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From: Haarlem, N-H, Netherlands
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posted 04-09-2012 02:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mama04   Click Here to Email mama04     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Check the alternate crew photo as well...

Besixdouze
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From: Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire, United Kingdom
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posted 04-09-2012 02:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Besixdouze   Click Here to Email Besixdouze     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Okay, I'll give you that one Maarten. I'd still like a more conclusive image though.

J.L
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From: Bloomington, Illinois, USA
Registered: May 2005

posted 04-09-2012 02:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for J.L   Click Here to Email J.L     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here is the pink version on Mattingly's hat when the crew arrived at KSC for launch.

Kevin T. Randall
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From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 04-09-2012 02:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin T. Randall   Click Here to Email Kevin T. Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Many thanks gents for all your help. The evidence is now stacking up in favour of this 'pink' variant STS-4 patch being indeed the crew worn patch. But it is up to Chris to decide now if he would like to include it on his crewpatches website.

Kevin T. Randall
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From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 04-09-2012 02:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin T. Randall   Click Here to Email Kevin T. Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hoorenz:
I also have a couple of patches with curved names. Does anyone know the history of that version?

The answer to that question is no, but I've look at them very closely and they are an exact match to the original souvenir versions manufactured by AB Emblem. But the names are on the curve of the patch rather than straight across the bottom. So I would say that the curved names version was also produced by AB Emblem.

hoorenz
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From: The Netherlands
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posted 04-09-2012 03:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hoorenz   Click Here to Email hoorenz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, the curved version is clearly AB Emblem. Exactly the same size as the one with the pink insert (so smaller than the souvenir version), same dimple pattern on the back. Just wondered why it was produced in addition to the one with the straight names.

By the way, I have made a quick collage of some STS-4 patches as seen on the Retro Space disc.

Kevin T. Randall
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From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 04-09-2012 04:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin T. Randall   Click Here to Email Kevin T. Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hoorenz:
If I remember correctly, I once read that a 5" version was also produced especially for the crew by AB Emblem.
Could that of been the large Lion Brothers version of this patch? That has the 'pink' infill in the fold of vapour trail.

hoorenz
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From: The Netherlands
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posted 04-09-2012 11:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hoorenz   Click Here to Email hoorenz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I believe the 5 inch was mentioned in Kaplan and Muniz. Obviously a book about (and to boost sales of) AB Emblem patches, so I do not think they would mention a Lion Brothers patch. I realize a lot of mistakes are in that book and maybe I do not even remember correctly.

Harald Kraenzel
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From: Dinslaken,Germany
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posted 04-10-2012 07:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harald Kraenzel   Click Here to Email Harald Kraenzel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My original AB emblem from around 1981 which does not have the pink insert is around 4.9" wide and around 2.6" high.

In 08/2004 I bought an STS-4 patch from AB again and this one measures around 5.6" wide and 3.1" high.

hoorenz
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From: The Netherlands
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posted 04-10-2012 07:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for hoorenz   Click Here to Email hoorenz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My mistake. I have found my Kaplan and Muniz. The passage is about a 5" crew patch for STS-3; about two souvenir versions for STS-4, one of them being 5 inch, fully embroidered and with an overlock border; the other one the same size of the official patch (no mention of a pink insert there) but on a twill background.

kosmo
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From:
Registered: Sep 2001

posted 04-10-2012 08:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kosmo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't know if this helps with this discussion, but I have included a few pictures of a display of artifacts from Gene Kranz's personal collection. In it is a STS-4 patch example, with the light red/pink infill at the fold of the vapor trail. I would think that because he worked in mission control on STS-4, that he got this patch in the same time frame, lending to a early example?

Kevin T. Randall
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From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 04-10-2012 10:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin T. Randall   Click Here to Email Kevin T. Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Chris has e-mailled me to-day, and yes, he is going to construct an STS-4 'crew' patch page on his crew patches website.

Kevin T. Randall
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From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 04-11-2012 09:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin T. Randall   Click Here to Email Kevin T. Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Chris has been working hard all day today on constructing the new STS-4 'crew' patch page, (with a little help from me with the patch images and sizes). Chris hopes to post the finished page up online later on today for all to see.

It has been hard to list all of the AB Emblem variants for this patch over the 30 year time span, but hopefully we have most of them. If anyone knows of any that have been missed, could they post an image or images here with any details and sizes.

Many thanks goes out to all the members of this forum who contributed with the high-res images of the crew from the time of the mission, and for images of presentation pieces with the STS-4 'crew' patches included.

spaced out
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Posts: 2604
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 04-11-2012 10:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I should maybe clarify that my aim is not to include all versions created over the last 30 years (one of the reasons I want to avoid covering Shuttle missions in general).

Rather the idea is to highlight the 'crew patch' and provide details of the other versions from around the time of the mission so as to allow people to identify individual patches.

A few later versions might be included where necessary to highlight similarities that might cause confusion.

In any case I will finish the page this evening and upload it.

Many thanks to Kevin for multiple scans from his vast collection, and of course to the other collectors involved in this group effort to identify and highlight interesting patches from the early Shuttle flights.

spaced out
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Posts: 2604
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 09-20-2012 12:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I noticed the eBay sale yesterday of an STS4UNK1 patch at nearly $225. Now I don't know whether this high price was because the patch was mistaken for the crew version or because the UNK1 version is considered scarce and worth collecting.

In any case since it looks so similar to the crew design I've slightly expanded the section on that patch on the STS-4 page of my CrewPatches site.

hoorenz
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From: The Netherlands
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posted 09-20-2012 03:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hoorenz   Click Here to Email hoorenz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Looks to be a very modern reproduction. I would not be surprised if this was made because of this thread. Note that it reads "Columbla" instead of "Columbia".

spaced out
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From: Paris, France
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posted 09-20-2012 03:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for pointing out the "i". I've added that trait to the description.

dingpatch
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From: Melbourne, FL, USA
Registered: Aug 2013

posted 08-05-2013 10:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dingpatch     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The STS-4 patches with the curved names were handed out to the launch support crews at KSC prior to launch. My wife has a couple of them. The question would be; did AB make these as 'specials" to be given to the workers?

Kevin T. Randall
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Posts: 465
From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 08-06-2013 01:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin T. Randall   Click Here to Email Kevin T. Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dingpatch:
The question would be; did AB make these as 'specials" to be given to the workers?
The answer is No. This patch was the first of the subtle design changes that were done. This patch with the curved names is more common that the original with straight names.

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