Posts: 729
From: Longview, Texas, USA
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Posts: 729
From: Longview, Texas, USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 10-24-2007 10:27 PM               

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gilbert:
Cool. What's the scale?

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The scale is 1/96th. It's the command module from the Revell kit. This one was part of a broken set I probably acquired on ebay a few years ago.

Posts: 2272
From: Bellevue, NE, USA
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From: Lee's summit, MO
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From: Atlanta, GA
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Posts: 846
From: Los Angeles CA. USA
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posted 10-25-2007 02:43 PM               

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Hey - I recognize that! It's sitting in front of my office - pizza stand and all. You just earned a tour of this boilerplate the next time you get to California!

I hate to be a critic but this capsule is so old that it didn't have any windows just drawings on the side where they would have been!

Yeah, I must admit that I am dusting off my old Estes Little Joe II model and am planning on doing it for us sometime soon.

The city is going to create a new stand for the capsule before it goes on display but we did notice the resemblence to that pedestal.

Thank you for the complement - we hope to have a display model area so there will be a place to "see" Apollo and what was built here - as it was back then.

J.M. Busby
Aerospace Legacy Foundation
Downey, CA

Posts: 729
From: Longview, Texas, USA
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Posts: 2272
From: Bellevue, NE, USA
Registered: Aug 2007

Posts: 729
From: Longview, Texas, USA
Registered: Apr 2000

Posts: 2272
From: Bellevue, NE, USA
Registered: Aug 2007

posted 10-26-2007 11:28 AM               

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Nice looking model, except it doesn't even have a BP on top. It is the first test booster with the dummy capsule and LES to test the concept before the LES abort tests began. I prefer the Launch Abort BP little Joes myself and the one that flew with an actual capsule (which I believe the Centuri kit represents). Of course, I suppose this kit could be modified if one so desired.

Maybe I'll just scratch an LJ 2 booster for the Monogram 1/32 capsule. But for that I would need to backdate it from a block 2 to a block 1 unit.

Posts: 729
From: Longview, Texas, USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 10-26-2007 02:09 PM               

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jay Chladek:
Maybe I'll just scratch an LJ 2 booster for the Monogram 1/32 capsule. But for that I would need to backdate it from a block 2 to a block 1 unit.

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That's ironic. Most modelers must update the block 1 kits to block 2 standards! You may have an easier project if you built a 1/48th scale CSM from the Revell kit. It is already a block 1 though not entirely accurate. Still it would be relatively easy to build a model of the final Little Joe II-Apollo which used CSM 002. In fact, 002 would be the easiest block 1 version to build. If I recall correctly, it lacked the radiator panels which are not molded correctly anyway, so just sanding those away would give you the 002 SM. The "Space In Miniature" #6 on the Apollo CSM gives the details about the block 1 and 2 spacecraft. One problem that would be challenging is building the BPC. I've done it and it took a lot of time, though your skills may be a lot better than mine and perhaps that part of the project wouldn't be as challenging to you as it was to me.

Posts: 2272
From: Bellevue, NE, USA
Registered: Aug 2007

posted 10-26-2007 11:15 PM               

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quote:

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Originally posted by dtemple:
You may have an easier project if you built a 1/48th scale CSM from the Revell kit.

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The only minor problem with going that route is the old Revell Block 1 capsule kits are somewhat rare and tend to command high prices when I see them. I have one of those partly assembled from when Revell of Germany reissued the gift set in 1994 for the 25th anniversary of Apollo 11. But I have that one earmarked for a 1/48 scale Saturn 1B model I want to do, representing Apollo SA-201 since the local museum near where I live has Spacecraft 009 from that flight.

Going 1/48 has another advantage, such as having an LES to work from without having to scratchbuild it, although its not hard to do. If I did go 1/32, I would have to sand all the block 2 details off the SM anyway, same as in 1/48. So that would leave the CM that needs the most back dating work (or converting to look like a CSM with a BPC on it).

I've got quite a few Apollo references, such as SIM 6 (and Peter Alway's Rockets of the World book for LJ2 references) to get me started on such a project, should I undertake it. Plus, Dave Weeks, who did some excellent plan sets available from Realspace, also has provided some excellent inspiration from his scratchbuild and kitbash projects as well, such as the Little Joe rocket he did a few years back.

BTW, one sort of related story about LJ2 is about 12 years ago I built the Estes 1/100 LJ2 kit, but I built an 18mm engine mount for it since I didn't want to fly it with just the mini motors. I also accidentally put one of the fins on ever so slightly crooked, so the thing spun on ascent. But it flew pretty well this way as it was a nice tight spin and not a corkscrew.

On one flight I did with a C6-5 motor, the spin became more of a corkscrew near apogee when the model was in coasting flight before the ejection charge went off. Looking up at the smoke trail, I imagine it might have looked something like the CM-002 flight since the booster was rigged with adjustable fins to send the rocket into a tumble, simulating a worst case LES abort. Too bad not long after I lost that rocket in a junkyard as it gave some beautiful looking flights. But that is why I acquired a second one so one day I could build another one to fly again. It is a fun kit to build, be it for display only or flight.

Posts: 846
From: Los Angeles CA. USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted 10-30-2007 02:12 PM               

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Thanks guys for all the attention.

I have noticed on the web and in various magazines, like LAUNCH magazine that the Centuri Little Joe II has been reproduced by SEMROC Astronautics Corporaration.

Are there others?
J.M. Busby

Posts: 2272
From: Bellevue, NE, USA
Registered: Aug 2007

posted 10-30-2007 03:08 PM               

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quote:

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Originally posted by E2M Lem Man:
I have noticed on the web and in various magazines, like LAUNCH magazine that the Centuri Little Joe II has been reproduced by SEMROC Astronautics Corporaration.

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Unfortunately that is not the Centuri Little Joe, but rather I believe it is a cloned version of the 1960s Estes Little Joe II instead as Centuri's kit featured the Spacecraft 002 configuration near as I can remember rather then the LJ2 booster test (represented here and by Estes). The Centuri kit was also a lot larger then 1/70 scale.

Over the years there have been at least four Little Joe kits done (possibly five). Estes in the late 1960s did a big one (1/70 scale, presumeably to use their LES designed for the Saturn 1B) and I think maybe a smaller one. Centauri did a big Little Joe of about 1/30 scale (or larger) and a 1/100 scale one. The Estes LJ2 kit that dtemple and I have is a 1/100 scale kit issued in the late 1980s and it is sort of a modified reissue of the Centuri kit with alterations made for Estes parts (such as Estes plastic 1/100 LES for their Saturn booster series).

When Centuri was bought out by Estes circa 1984 or so, a few of the more unique Centuri kits ended up in the Estes line with parts alterations. Prime examples include the 1/36 Mercury Redstone with plastic capsule (Estes did a 1/44 version with balsa capsule prior to this), 1/100 Saturn 1B, 1/100 Little Joe II and a couple others. I believe even the last Saturn V issue that Estes did has more Centuri based parts in it then before (I don't have the recent one to compare) as I heard the plastic body wraps made a comeback, which was a feature of the Centuri kit. The Estes Saturn V kit that I have (25th Anniversary Apollo 11 edition, with the E engine mount) includes embossed cardboard wraps instead of the vac plastic ones that Centuri was known for. My Estes 1/100 Saturn 1B issued circa 1989 has plastic wraps though, like a Centuri kit.

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From: Los Angeles CA. USA
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posted 11-06-2007 12:47 PM               

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Thanks for the update.

The one I still try to find for my (our) collection here is the legendary Cox Little Joe II/Apollo.

Sure it is small- but it is perfect to put up at displays where kids are present and might touch. My big Centuri Little Joe II cannot be out where little hands might explore.

But the Cox on is in scale with their Saturn 1-B and Saturn-5 models.

If anyone has any ideas where I might find one?- please drop a line.

I worked for Cox briefly before they merged and when they last put out their model rocket line, but alas they failed to release that one, and folded shortly afterwards.

J.M. Busby

Posts: 2272
From: Bellevue, NE, USA
Registered: Aug 2007

posted 11-06-2007 08:57 PM               

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Send me an email e2 (check my profile). I have what could be called "half" of a Cox LJ2 which I can send you. I have the intact nose section of a Cox Saturn 1B. The bottom part got melted due to a piece of recovery wadding that got stuck in it during descent. But the cone from the LES to the base of the S-IVB adaptor is in great shape

I am assuming that the LJ2 that Cox did used the same CSM as the Saturn V and 1B models as I always wondered why it had a launch lug molded into it, when there is no way it could be used for flying the bigger rockets. As such, the bottom of the LJ2 would need to be scratchbuilt or scrounged from another source.

It is yours if you want it.

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From: Los Angeles CA. USA
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posted 11-07-2007 03:30 PM               

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Thanks Jay- I got to keep a few of the Saturns for the work I did for Cox. You have some great memories there, and you should keep them with you.

You are correct- that is why the Launch lug is built into the SM of the model and wasn't changed for the Saturn models.

Sure it is a block II SM- which never flew on Little Joe II, but they are nice.

Thanks Again!

J.M. Busby

Posts: 2272
From: Bellevue, NE, USA
Registered: Aug 2007

posted 11-09-2007 01:20 AM               

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Well let me know if you plan to go that route with one of your Saturns. That way if you do chop up a Saturn 1B to scrounge the bits for a Little Joe kitbash, I would be happy to take the lower bit off your hands.

Of course, I might just scratch a bottom bit for this cone. I seem to recall that the Saturn 1 design that Peter Alway did for one of his rocket books was in the same scale as the Cox Saturn 1B (about 1/130 scale). So I might be able to come up with my own flying rocket easily enough by altering the Saturn 1 to a 1B and doing the necessary dimension changes if I need to.

Speaking of Cox Saturns, if you watch "Is That All There Is" in the HBO series From the Earth to the Moon, the Cox Saturn V (with its weird paintjob with the upside down stripes on stage 2) can be seen in a display of rockets in the Apollo Applications office. The Saturn 1B was used for the astronaut photo sessions from Al's class (as he thinks back to those who flew and those who died from his class). The actor who played C.C. Williams picked up the Cox model in one bit during his photo shoot.

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From: Los Angeles CA. USA
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posted 11-13-2007 01:08 PM               

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....I remember - I told them where to get it!
- That pencil tapping engineer from Episode 5 "Spider".

Sorry!

J.M. Busby

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