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Author Topic:   Omega Speedmaster Master Chronometer
Robert Pearlman
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Posts: 45398
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 01-05-2021 01:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
collectSPACE
Omega debuts next generation of NASA-qualified Speedmaster moonwatches

A new generation of the first watch worn on the moon carries on its iconic Apollo-era look while introducing the highest level of precision offered by a modern Swiss-made chronograph.

Omega debuted its new collection of Speedmaster Moonwatch Professional timepieces on Tuesday (Jan. 5), highlighting its state-of-the-art internal movement while also paying tribute to its more than 50-year-old lunar legacy.

Gordon Eliot Reade
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Posts: 71
From: Palo Alto, Calif.
Registered: Jun 2015

posted 01-05-2021 09:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gordon Eliot Reade   Click Here to Email Gordon Eliot Reade     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A beautiful watch. However my "First Omega in Space" with the now retired cal. 1861 movement is accurate to better than a second a day. That's nothing short of astonishing. I can't believe the new and improved movement will top that performance. Why mess with perfection?

CMD_OVRD
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Posts: 45
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Jul 2009

posted 01-06-2021 10:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for CMD_OVRD   Click Here to Email CMD_OVRD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I like most of what Omega did here, but I think they missed on a couple of points.

The case design is awesome, with the double beveled case back that was used on the Ref. 105.012 watches that landed on the moon. The "dot over 90" detail in the bezel scale is a nice touch, as well as the fact that they retained the aluminum bezel vs a ceramic. The stubbier pushers are a perfect recreation of the original moonwatch look. The textured step dial is a beautiful nod to the original and there's still a Hesalite version available. Last, but not least, they went back to the original teardrop shape end on the chronograph hand.

With all of that attention to detail, I'm baffled as to why they didn't offer an applied metal Omega logo on the dial of the Hesalite version. You have to step up to the sapphire model to get that. That detail alone would've made it nearly identical to the original 105.012. If you look closely, they also changed the seconds track from five divisions to three divisions to accommodate the 3Hz frequency of the new movement.

The new movement is the big news. NASA originally qualified the Cal. 321 movement for space flight. This movement was updated and replaced by the 861 movement in 1968 and eventually became the 1861 with a few minor changes. The 861 was re-qualified by NASA in the '70s for use on the shuttle. To date, we know that all of the watches that landed on the moon were Cal. 321s, at least one Cal. 861 flew on Apollo 17 in the command module, and the Cal. 1861 has been used extensively by the Russian space program for all of their EVA work. We've even seen one recently on the wrist of Crew 1 Commander Michael Hopkins aboard the Dragon capsule "Resilience."

I think it's a stretch to include the "Flight Qualified by NASA..." on the case back. This is a new movement that hasn't been tested, qualified, or used on any space flight. The movement differs greatly from the ones previously tested. The Co-Axial escapement is newer technology and changes some operations including a new hacking feature that the old movements lacked. Improvements and updates are great, but I think the marketing department took some license here. Yes, one could argue that the Cal. 1861 wasn't "qualified" either. However, it's close cousin, the 861 was, and the 1861 has been used in flight extensively.

Overall, it's an excellent update to a legendary watch. The design features that reflect the beauty of the original 105.012 are very well done. The jury is still out on the movement. Some day, NASA may re-qualify the watch again, or maybe the Russians will start using it for their launch and entry suits, as well as their EVAs. But until then, I wouldn't put too much stock in the caseback claims.

Larry McGlynn
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Posts: 1316
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 01-07-2021 06:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Larry McGlynn   Click Here to Email Larry McGlynn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have been talking with Omega reps about the watch. I am waiting for answer on the applied vs painted logo, but the painted logo was on the stepped dial 145.022-69. Maybe Omega was giving a nod to the moon landing year and the stepped dial in the Hesalite model. Or it allowed them to sell the Hesalite at a thousand dollar cheaper price. Also, Omega did engrave the logo in the center of the Hesalite crystal.

The case back actually is worded differently to say, "Flight-Qualified by NASA 'in 1965' for all manned space missions." With the addition of 1965 comes a nod to the date of qualification. It is a subtle, but distinct difference that refers back to the 321 movement and its year of certification by NASA.

I much prefer the Hesalite watch to the Sapphire version. I like the case back much better with the original Seamaster logo in the center.

As of the 3861 movement, Omega bet a ton in purchasing the rights to George Daniel's Co-Axial movement in 1999 and all Omega Seamaster and Speedmaster watches are converting over the movement. The Co-Axial movement has gone through several iterations from the 2500 to the 3861. I have a few different Speedmaster Co-Axial versions such as the Omega Speedmaster Broad Arrow Co-Axial GMT with the 3603 movement from 2005. The movement relies on a three jewel escapement level and a two level escape wheel. The setup allows for a faster beats per minute for better accuracy as well as not requiring any lubricant (and so lasts longer between servicing).

They did well in producing this replica of the Speedmaster Professional with a new movement. If I did not already have the 2020 Snoopy Speedmaster with the same movement on order, then I would buy this version of the Speedmaster.

CMD_OVRD
Member

Posts: 45
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Jul 2009

posted 01-07-2021 09:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for CMD_OVRD   Click Here to Email CMD_OVRD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great words Larry. Please post Omega’s answers to your questions if you can. I’d love to hear their reasoning on this.

I get what you’re saying about the caseback inscription. I believe, as you said, that it was a nod to the original qualification of the watch. I don’t doubt that the Co-Axials are awesome movements. I just felt that the text might be a bit misleading to the uninitiated buyer.

Larry McGlynn
Member

Posts: 1316
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 01-07-2021 09:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Larry McGlynn   Click Here to Email Larry McGlynn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I thought your post was very good. You know your Omega Speedys. While the 321 movement was tested by NASA and the 3861 has yet to be tested by NASA, the 3861 would pass the test and in fact it would improve the durability of the watch. The 3861 is more accurate over time and has less lubricant to foul the movement over a long duration mission.

I love the pre-Moon Speedy with the 321 column wheel chronograph module. The Speedy movement has gone through three iterations in the past five decades with the 321, 861, 1861 movements, and now the movement has been transformed again. It is the same movement that is in 2020 Snoopy Speedmaster as well as the Speedmaster Pro and the Seamaster and the Planet Ocean.

I will post when I hear back from Omega on the applied vs painted logo. It won't matter to me, because I like the Hesalite version better due to the caseback.

I love good watch talk. Now if Philip and John (TLIGuy) would chime in as they really know this subject matter. I would like to hear their opinion of the new Speedy Pro.

Philip
Member

Posts: 6079
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 01-12-2021 09:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In my opinion, it looks like a "Moonwatch" and from an Omega standpoint, they needed to use their META-certified co-axial 3861 movement to create the next generation Speedmaster.

So it's extensively modified, got a new bracelet and is priced at the cost of vintage 861 Speedmaster chronographs, so Omega will draw a new generation of Speedmaster fans who prefer a brand new watch.

However, I will wait and see what Omega will do for the 50th anniversary of Apollo-Soyuz Test Project in 2025.

Larry McGlynn
Member

Posts: 1316
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 01-12-2021 02:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Larry McGlynn   Click Here to Email Larry McGlynn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We will see what they do for ASTP in 2025, but the 35th Anniversary ASTP with the meteorite face and the McCall image on the caseback will still be my favorite.

Especially since the box is signed by both Stafford and Leonov.

Gordon Eliot Reade
Member

Posts: 71
From: Palo Alto, Calif.
Registered: Jun 2015

posted 01-14-2021 07:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gordon Eliot Reade   Click Here to Email Gordon Eliot Reade     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
35th Anniversary ASTP with the meteorite face is a favorite of mine, as far as design goes. Unfortunately I'm cursed with a good memory. The launch of the Apollo portion of ASTP was covered not only by reporters from all over the world but by tourists from every nation you could name. More than a hundred thousand people came to the Cape to witness the launch.

In sharp contrast not a single foreign reporter was allowed to visit the Baikonur Cosmodrome for the Soyuz launch. However the Russians understood the importance of good press relations. Graciously they issued Soviet Press credentials to all journalists at the Cape. When asked what these credentials were good for someone replied that they'd get you past any Russian guard at Pad 39B.

The Apollo-Soyuz Speedmaster promotes the false narrative that the Russians were on an equal footing with the Americans and that they were just as open and welcoming. Nothing could've been farther from the truth.

All times are CT (US)

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