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Author
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Topic: NASA Apollo in-flight helmet stowage bag
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BagdadAeroClub
New Member Posts: 7
From: Bagdad, KY USA
Registered: Dec 2016
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posted 12-21-2016 10:52 AM
   
I recently acquired a NASA, Beta Cloth, In-Flt. Helmet Stow Bag, Mfg by Welson Co., INC., Part Number SEB 13100077-206, Serial Number 1257, Date of Mfg. 2/15/71. There is also the letter "C" sewn onto the bag.Based on the manufacture date, I am attempting to determine if this was a flown item on Apollo 15 or Apollo 17. NASA was only able to provide flown serial numbers for Apollo 16 (1104, 1105 and 1106). Extensive internet research has only turned up one documented example from Apollo 14 (serial no. 1141) that sold at auction. This also suggested that the bags were not issued in serial number order. NASA also confirmed that similar bags were used on Apollo-Soyuz and Skylab, but the part number was different. Any help would be greatly appreciated!  
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LM-12
Member Posts: 3207
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 12-21-2016 01:10 PM
quote:
Originally posted by BagdadAeroClub:
...example from Apollo 14 (serial no. 1141) that sold at auction.
The Apollo Lunar Surface Journal mentions that the Helmet Stowage Bags used on Apollo 11, 12 and 14 were left behind in the LM. That would mean the bags were jettisoned with the LM ascent stage. |
BagdadAeroClub
New Member Posts: 7
From: Bagdad, KY USA
Registered: Dec 2016
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posted 12-21-2016 02:46 PM
Thanks, I am familiar with this site. It also goes on to say, "On the last three missions, [15, 16, 17... my edit] the HSBs were transferred to the CM so that the LEVAs and gloves could be used during the CMP's EVA done to retrieve film canisters from the Service Module." |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42981
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 12-21-2016 07:38 PM
Though the serial number is not listed, Harrison Schmitt's Apollo 17 helmet stowage bag is in the National Air and Space Museum's collection. |
SpaceAholic
Member Posts: 4437
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 12-21-2016 08:45 PM
NASM also credits ILC as the manufacturer of Schmitt's bag (different design). |
neo1022
Member Posts: 281
From: Santa Monica, CA
Registered: Jun 2013
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posted 12-21-2016 11:00 PM
And I think I recall that Cernan's Apollo 17 helmet bag sold at auction, so it's probably not from that mission... |
DG27
Member Posts: 173
From: USA
Registered: Nov 2010
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posted 12-22-2016 02:31 AM
There were two types of helmet stowage bags used on each Apollo mission (with the exception of Apollo 7 and 8). There were three In-Flight Helmet Stowage Bags (IN-FLT HSB) (P/N SEB-13100077-XXX) in the CM, and two EVA Helmet stowage bags (P/N A6L-502000-XX) in the LM. The helmet stowage bag (IN-FLT HSB) you have is the type used in the CM. The EVA helmet stowage bags used in the LM, which held the helmet with EVA visor assembly and gloves, were generally not returned from the mission. One exception is the Apollo 17 bag referenced in the earlier posting. Generally the In-Flt HSBs were returned as they were used during the mission to safely hold the bubble helmet when the helmet was not being worn. The HSB may have been used to hold the helmet protective shield as well. I have checked the records I have, and all the Apollo missions used IN-FLT HSBs with serial numbers in the 11XX range. Note that I am missing data for Apollo 7 and 12). The highest Apollo flown serial number is 1182 (used on Apollo 17). Since your bag is Serial 1257 I believe it is safe to say it was not flown. Unfortunately the records I have do not list the IN-FLT HSB for ASTP or Skylab. However, since the highest flown serial number is 1182, there is plenty of room in the 11XX range to cover the HSBs used for ASTP and Skylab. I have an IN-FLT HSB with a similar serial number as yours and the same manufacturer date. I believe the 12XX serial number HSBs were used for training. It is still a very nice artifact. Congratulations on acquiring it. Hope this helps. |
DG27
Member Posts: 173
From: USA
Registered: Nov 2010
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posted 12-22-2016 02:35 AM
I forgot to mention the letter "C" sewn to the bag designates it was used for the crewman in the "Center" seat (the CM Pilot). |
spaced out
Member Posts: 3110
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 12-22-2016 05:40 AM
A Crew Provisions Hardware Schedule and Status Report from 1972 shows S/Ns 1184, 1264 and 1270 assigned to 118-F (Skylab III).Unfortunately the document doesn't extend as far as ASTP, but it is conceivable that 12xx numbers were used on that flight. Of course it's most likely the stowage bag was a spare article. The only other 12xx serial number reference is S/N 1250, a KSC spare as of 1972. |
BagdadAeroClub
New Member Posts: 7
From: Bagdad, KY USA
Registered: Dec 2016
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posted 12-22-2016 07:56 AM
Thanks for taking the time to provide valuable informationI agree that there were two different types of helmet bags: The In-Flight Helmet Stowage Bag (pictured) and carried in the Command Module, and the Lunar Extravehicular Visor Assembly, or LEVA bag carried in the Lunar Module. As part of my research, I received an email from the Archivist, JSC Archival Collection, who stated that the Skylab HSB part numbers were SEB1310000-207, compared to the Apollo HSB part number SEB1310000-206 (pictured), therefore, I am skeptical about the possibility of this bag being used on Skylab... unless the Archivist is wrong! |
BagdadAeroClub
New Member Posts: 7
From: Bagdad, KY USA
Registered: Dec 2016
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posted 12-22-2016 08:42 AM
Another possibility is that these higher numbered bags were produced in anticipation of Apollo missions 18, 19 and 20, which, of course, were cancelled. |
spaced out
Member Posts: 3110
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 12-22-2016 09:37 AM
You're right, the Skylab bags were all -207s, although the S/N 1250 KSC spare was actually a -206.The logical conclusion of this evidence is that the bag is almost certainly not flown, but as mentioned above it's still a great item. |
drifting to the right
Member Posts: 114
From: SW La.
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted 12-23-2016 12:16 PM
Very informative discussion. It was my good fortune to obtain Gene Cernan's flown Apollo 17 CM helmet stowage bag just over 10 years ago when he sold it thru Novaspace. It has S/N 1164 and date of mfg. 9-13-68. It also carries the "L" label for commander's CM seat, Novaspace mistakenly indicating it meant size "large." Gene had annotated the bag "Flow on Apollo 17," and was kind enough to add the missing "n" to the first word when I brought the item to the San Antonio autograph show in 2006. He jokingly asked if we should have that one letter notarized.After the purchase there was a one month delay before Gene sent the letter of provenance, as he was traveling in Asia. Excerpts from that letter: In addition, we had only two visor helmets that went over the pressure helmet — one for Jack and one for me — and it was my visor helmet that Ron Evans used on his in-flight EVA.We additionally took these bags to the surface primarily to protect the visor and helmet itself. (!??? — No, I didn't ask Gene about that in 2006, and now wish I had.) It was also a handy little goodie bag to put things in that is why I have mine and it did not stay with the helmet itself. |
BagdadAeroClub
New Member Posts: 7
From: Bagdad, KY USA
Registered: Dec 2016
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posted 12-24-2016 07:58 AM
OUTSTANDING story! Congratulations on an awesome artifact and rock solid provenance! |
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