posted 05-27-2016 03:49 PM               

John is looking to save a Gemini spacecraft boilerplate from becoming a lawn ornament or scrap metal. With John, we're looking to fully restore this boilerplate to its original condition and use it to further educate the public about the importance of the Gemini project in getting man to the moon. In addition, we would also like to highlight the history of this particular boilerplate and their role in the space program.

It seems appropriate that John would start this GoFundMe project on the 55th anniversary of President Kennedy's call to put a man on the moon. As such I would like to call on you to consider this campaign and join John, myself and others in preserving this piece of history to be shared with others. Thanks for your consideration in donating this this cause.

posted 05-27-2016 04:52 PM               

I think my main concern can be summed up with a question: why does this project end with a private individual owning the capsule, and not a museum or non-profit organization?

It seems a little misleading to lead the solicitation explaining that John, the recipient of these funds, works at NASA Glenn. Despite his work there, it sounds like this fundraiser has *nothing* to do with NASA Glenn in any official or legal ownership capacity; if the fundraising campaign is concerned about the capsule, its restoration, and its display, why not propose raising funds for NASA Glenn to purchase the boilerplate? Or why not raise funds to purchase it privately and then donate it to the visitor center? Instead, there is some vague language about how "it will never be sold or scrapped... only passed along when necessary to the next capable custodian that can do the same." This sounds like what a museum does; why not involve an actual organization that has some accountability?

It sounds like the $10,000 will pay for the purchase and transport of the capsule to Ohio, to someone's home. I take it that means there will need to be another round of funding to pay for the restoration. And another round of funding to pay for the custom trailer to move this around. What happens if that money never materializes? Is the capsule to be donated? Is it to be sold?

Also, what happens if this instant funding goal is not met? GoFundMe specifically states that, regardless of whether the goal is met, the fundraiser gets all the money raised. "With GoFundMe, you keep each and every donation you receive. Reaching your goal is not required." In fact, GoFundMe allows you to withdraw money from the fundraiser immediately, as soon as it's pledged, i.e. right now. So, let's say this stalls at the $2000 mark, what happens to that cash? Well, it goes to a private individual. Why not use a fundraising website that require the goal to be met, otherwise refunds are issued? There are many such sites that allow that and this is very much an all or nothing project.

I like the idea of the project, but before I am willing to make a donation, I'd hope there would be more planning and a clear game plan. I have to ask, again, why is this not associated with a museum or non-profit? Why can't we lobby a museum to raise the funds? the National Air and Space Museum did an online fundraiser (Reboot the Suit), so it's not groundbreaking...

posted 05-27-2016 05:58 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by mf451:
Why does this project end with a private individual owning the capsule, and not a museum or non-profit organization?

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For another example, NASA recently handed over a full-scale space shuttle replica to a private owner, who is restoring it to become a traveling exhibit.

posted 05-27-2016 11:11 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by mf451:
Perhaps my points are unfounded, but I do have concerns about this crowd funding project.

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Here is John's response to your questions. Thanks for the questions that you posted.

No harm taken by your post. I'm John, the Exhibits tech and initiator of the funding campaign. You raise honest questions in a civil tone and I respect that. Hopefully I can provide some answers, right or wrong, to your questions and lend some clarity to what we are trying to accomplish.

The question with which you summed up with is the biggest indeed... Why a private ownership instead of a not for profit, etc. The simplest answer I can offer is that I cant start a not-for-profit organization without having something to form it around first. To start that process without a real sense of assured success on actually obtaining the centerpiece for it is not practical for the work involved (for me at least) The availability of the capsule was a very recent event to me — the current owner is a scrap dealer out west that believes he has a very valuable piece of "collectable" metal and started at around $19,000. When it didn't sell it went on eBay and the bidding ended at around $1,500.00 and apparently the seller balked because it went back up at 12,000.00 and sat.

Those in the know recognize the historic value of a boilerplate far outweighs its curb appeal and "cool" true capsule attractiveness. That leaves the artifact in limbo between someone who knows they can translate that historic value in an educational and professional manner to invest in it — or someone who lowballs the bid to a frustrated scrap dealer so they can use it to promote the local flea market or whatever (My worst nightmare!). The seller in question here is anxious and has indicated that there are others interested... hence the hasty post.

The intent is indeed to incorporate the exhibit as a singular entity — there will be no title per se, but the end result should be a stand alone entity that someone will have to store, maintain and insure, even when its sitting still. This will undoubtedly fall to me, or the group and is a sacrifice I'm prepared to make until it is ready to "show." That's when I see the formation of a not-for-profit becoming a reality. "We" want to be that organization, but first things first. The next "custodian" will inherit, not purchase the foundation or organization that this becomes.

Next... the GoFundMe campaign is the first, and only means I knew of to start with. I'd be more than open to other (quicker?) ideas! I've never done any type of fundraising personally and will surely be in for some surprises if successful, like taxes. etc., my name, my tax debt, and so on. Again, acceptable risk for me. The plan for failure, from the beginning was to refund each and every dollar in full to each donor — the resulting percentage that GoFundMe retains is, again, absorbed by me personally to keep from burdening anyone else, I will refund the entire donated amount. The best I can offer there is my word backed by a solid reputation to those that know me.

Next, the fundraiser definitely has nothing to do with NASA Glenn. By law NASA cannot be involved in any purchase or monetary contribution without a contract (Space Act Agreement) and presents another universe of complication. It's ironic that they were the party that excessed it in the first place.

I am, as stated, a contract employee, not a civil servant... two very different worlds, legally and operationally. The only reason I mention the Center is to hopefully add some confidence to my implied abilities, having been involved directly with artifacts and exhibits in the NASA realm at a professional level for over 13 years. Within that realm I know firsthand what NASA will be willing to purchase or fund.

An outside project (even a formerly owned NASA item that has been excessed) is rarely if ever considered. I beg and borrow daily for supplies in the shop to maintain the aging exhibits we already have. I work exhibits across the agency and am directed, via contract, through HQ and know for certain such a request would be passed over without consideration. NASA struggles with budgets for upcoming projects and allocates most of its historical responsibilities... to contractors. It can be maddening to see it up close as a passionate admirer of space history... hence the privatized and hasty attempt at fundraising here.

What the association I have with NASA DOES offer is internal access to a network of employee/friends to help with finding historical records and documentation that will be most helpful in the restoration. I imagine I will be in many basements chasing documents if successful.

As you correctly inferred... the $10,000 asked for will basically cover the purchase of the capsule and hopefully enough to get it here in Ohio. Once again, ironically it can be stored ( as privately owned property!) ...at the Center in an employee storage area inside the secure fence line.

And, as you guessed, the trailer will be yet another adventure. If all else fails on that we have several options close at hand... A donation to the Great Lakes Science Center, which operates NASA Glenn Visitor Center (as a contractor!) or, the U.S. Air Force Museum in Dayton, a nice tie in to the Air Force MOL (Manned Orbital Laboratory) program. There are also several aviation mueums in Ohio (Birthplace of Aviation state) that are options. To repeat — donated, not sold!

Hopefully this sheds some light on the motive and limited means I'm working with. GoFundMe IS rather vague about just letting the people who start the campaign keep the money in total no matter what, I do recognize that. At this point in this situation it's my personal pride and honor that I will refund whatever is donated in total if we're unsuccessful.

I am truly respectful of your post and for the opportunity to reply. I am always open to better options and suggestions! Lastly, time is the biggest obstacle here, whether you donate anything or not, I appreciate your interest and input. Either way... Blue Skies and Tailwinds... Cheers!

posted 05-31-2016 04:40 PM               

First, thank you Rob for allowing us to post this attempt here. You know some of us personally and know of our sincerity and capabilities, but I appreciate you letting try to reach out to others among like-minded folks that don't know us, with our project. I'm open to any questions or dialogue on what we are trying to accomplish in securing this boilerplate.

The group we have in place is dedicated to the spirit of preserving this artifact, not just as an object, but as a teachable tribute in the form of an educational exhibit that can be traveled by custom trailer, with and by, some very capable educators with decades of combined NASA and Space history related experience. The end result would be a not-for-profit (foundation?) group that would not be limited to a single room in a museum or building but rather able to operate a movable exhibit that can reach out with a tangible and tactile interactive exhibit accompanied by live, experienced educators to tell the story of how this particular artifact fits into the larger amazing story of the first manned landings on the moon.

Boilerplates were built for all three programs (Mercury, Gemini and Apollo) in the overall Apollo project and it's an often overlooked aspect of the effort. We hope to build an exhibit that will tell the story for many years to come and continue to grow and tell the story of the amazing technological achievements accomplished in the early days of the U.S. space program.

posted 06-02-2016 10:20 AM               

Keep in mind there were quite a few variations in the boilerplate configurations. Some were fairly detailed, with actual production skin panels, fittings, doors, windows and even seats. These were used in training with the crews and sometimes even mated to boosters for fit checks etc. These are obviously the sought after examples, whether by a museum or a private owner looking for their own capsule, simulator, dream fantasy, whatever.

Others, with much less fidelity, were smooth skinned (literally, boilerplate) closed capsules that approximated the size, shape and weight of the actual vehicle, to be used as recovery and systems (parachute drops etc.) test articles. Sadly, though equally important to the "mission," they were often overlooked as the furious pace of the overall moon program rushed on ahead and left these test articles in its wake. Scattered to the winds, at various military installations and facilities, they were eventually seen as large unusable nuisances and one by one excessed by the government.

The capsule mentioned in this thread, and the object of our fundraising campaign is one of the lower fidelity (read as: not as desirable to collectors, hence the lower price) examples. That fact is exactly why it is in jeopardy of being scrapped or misused, and the main reason our group is trying to save it.

We have a solid plan for building the proper educational program around it to reveal its true historical value to the American space program's history. We can take its seemingly mundane appearance and peel back the layers of its decades long negligence and reveal its true place in history. A fool would by it as an investment, it's value is in telling the story. That's the plan and we are hopeful in making it happen.

posted 06-16-2016 04:08 PM               

Despite the fact that the GoFundMe campaign topped out at just under a thousand dollars, I had raised the remaining balance last week and made a verbal agreement with the seller to buy it. After trying to reach him this week to make the payment I finally made contact today — only to find out that the boilerplate had been sold out from under me and already transferred off the seller's property.

I cannot express my frustration and sadness over losing this opportunity to create the teaching exhibit I had envisioned for it. The seller, in my opinion, was unscrupulous and unprofessional. I have no doubt that this artifact will soon appear at auction with a quick coat of paint and some quick cosmetic work at an outrageous price.

Buyer be warned... this artifact was purchased as scrap for hundreds of dollars and treated purely as an investment buy for the scrap dealer in Yuba City. I can only hope that a museum or other worthy group will acquire it and preserve it properly.

I will keep a keen eye on its resale progress (Boilerplate MSC 325) and am saddened that, beside the poor business etiquette involved with the seller that this project is now sadly ended by the quest for profit.

In the three weeks I had been pursuing this artifact for the group I had arranged support from many skilled technical and capable people and from folks involved directly with the Gemini project themselves, including former crew. I humbly apologize for building the enthusiasm it generated among the many interested parties and especially to those that donated to the fund.

I will now, as promised begin the task of refunding each and every dollar donated to the respectful donors. Rest assured, I have learned much in this adventure and, as I suspected, but pledged to honor, will now have to absorb the expense of making it right with all who supported the effort.

To each of you, I thank you for the amazing support and donations, and I apologize for not being able to see this project through. Perhaps another opportunity will present itself, who knows what will come along next. I will be willing, and surely wiser, if another chance comes along.

posted 06-20-2016 02:35 PM               

Or did you expect him to sit around and not make any money selling it while waiting for you to raise money from other people?

If he agreed to wait and lied to you then that's not right. But if he simply sold it to someone who used their own money and you expected him to wait around for you, then your not right to call him "unscrupulous." Especially if your asking other people to pay for it AND expecting him to wait for you.

posted 06-21-2016 06:06 PM               

As John mentioned in his email he had raised ~$800 in the GoFundMe site. Afterwards a friend of John's discussed the fundraising campaign with him and between the two of them decided that they could make a financial investment to make up the remaining difference.

On June 9th, John contacted the boilerplate owner to inform him that he had raised the money and asked the owner if he would still sell the boilerplate for $8,500. The owner said that he would still honor the previously agreed amount and that the capsule was in his possession.

John informed him that he was making payment arrangements and that the payment would be made on June 14th. The owner informed John that he agreed with that payment date.

John subsequently tried to contact the owner on June 14th to make the payment as agreed, but no one answered or returned his calls either on June 14 or 15th. On June 16th the boilerplate owner finally took John's call. The owner informed John that the boilerplate had been sold to a friend sometime between June 9th and 14th for a larger sum, breaking the verbal agreement between John and the owner that the boilerplate was his at the agreed amount ($8,500).

Between June 9th and 14th when this sale apparently took place, the owner made no attempt to inform John that he planned to break the verbal agreement nor give John the chance to even make a counter offer.

posted 11-22-2018 12:56 AM               

Boilerplate Gemini Capsule, 9.5 feet tall by 7.5 feet wide, approximately 3500 lbs. Serial number "MSC 325," painted gray with Gemini & NASA logos, US flag, stenciled "United States" and "NASA," interior unadorned, painted white. With original towing skid. Lacking access hatch and one panel, restored...

Please note that this capsule is being sold in situ, and is currently located in the San Francisco Bay Area. Interested parties who wish to view the capsule are invited to contact the department to make arrangements. The successful buyer will be responsible for the timely disassembly if required, removal and shipping of this lot from its current location at buyer's expense no later than one month after the date of this auction.