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Author
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Topic: STS-41G CBS Fox Video (flown) medallion
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JBoe
Member Posts: 959
From: Churchton, MD
Registered: Oct 2012
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posted 07-26-2015 04:23 PM
   
I recently found and purchased a "CBS FOX Video First in Space" medallion (similar to the STS-41G flown example auctioned here) and unfortunately it did not include any paperwork. The seller stated that he had a letter of authenticity, but in the many moves was lost. I've only seen the key chain/medal described as flown, is there any others that are unflown? Any additional information would be great! Thanks! |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42981
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 07-26-2015 05:49 PM
I don't know about other medals, but for something like this, I would say even if every other example is documented as flown, without a letter accompanying yours, it can only be treated as unflown. This is the type of item where provenance is key. |
JBoe
Member Posts: 959
From: Churchton, MD
Registered: Oct 2012
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posted 07-27-2015 03:41 AM
Robert, thanks again I really appreciate it. The seller was contacted in the past when he listed it on eBay prior to this auction. Those eBayers provided additional information and I'm trying to get their contact information. Maybe I'll get lucky and they were all flown!  |
JBoe
Member Posts: 959
From: Churchton, MD
Registered: Oct 2012
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posted 07-27-2015 07:39 PM
My progress in finding a determination if all medallions are flown had drastically slowed down. The seller couldn't find the eBay inquiries prior to my acquisition. Google searches only reference the eBay auction in which I won along with Nate Sanders' auction and Tim's medal/medallion website. Those two (Nate and Tim) prominently display the Sally Ride LOA. With that said, how should one proceed? - Attempt to contact CBS and/or Fox for a possible provenance? If so whom to contact?
- Contact the crew of STS-41G, testing their memory. It appears by the two LOAs Sally Ride was the best to vouch the provenance. Besides, who on the crew would like to be bothered with this request?
- Contact IMAX or those involved with the Large Format Camera (LFC) at Itek Optical Systems.
- Is there a manifest of items maintained by NASA? It seems like all items/tokens were manifested at least in the last shuttle missions. Weren't there lists in earlier flights?
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Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42981
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 07-28-2015 05:13 AM
quote:
Originally posted by JBoe:
Attempt to contact CBS and/or Fox for a possible provenance?
CBS/Fox Video is not CBS or Fox, but rather one company: CBS/Fox Video was a home video company formed and established in 1982, as a merger between 20th Century Fox Video, formerly Magnetic Video Corporation, and CBS Video Enterprises which sold film libraries from major American film studios and was the American licensee of BBC Video releases. ...it became Fox Video (now 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment) in 1991. |
tnperri
Member Posts: 452
From: Malvern, Ohio
Registered: Jun 2011
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posted 07-28-2015 06:12 AM
By the way, the one sold by Nate's Auction and mine are the same one, not two separate. Yours and mine are the only two of have seen. |
JBoe
Member Posts: 959
From: Churchton, MD
Registered: Oct 2012
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posted 08-11-2015 07:00 PM
UPDATE: First, I sent a request to two CBS Home Entertainment executives back on 28 July, no response as of yet. Second, I sent a request to an associate at the Smithsonian enlisting her assistance and maybe reaching out to Dr. Kathy Sullivan prior to her talk during September's Glenn lecture. Finally, I'm considering in reaching out to CAPT Crippen for his assistance. Besides, I wanted to ask him his thoughts on the Teal Amber, Teal Ruby, and Manned Orbiting Laboratory (MOL). |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42981
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-27-2015 03:50 PM
Looking back at the eBay auction that Jason won, I noticed the seller noted: The cast for the medallion key chain went on a mission aboard the Challenger Space Shuttle as a promotional stunt for CBS/FOX Video in 1984. That might suggest that no medallions flew and only the cast for them did. I then looked again at the Ride letter from the Nate Sanders auction describing the medallion as flown and I have concerns about its authenticity. The letter is not on NASA stationery but rather on a poorly constructed facsimile with a clearly low-resolution graphic of the NASA insignia. The letter is generic; it could be describing any medallion. The formatting is unprofessional and in my opinion, the signature is questionable. For comparison, here is a clearly authentic example of a letter sent by Ride on NASA stationery from that time frame. |
JBoe
Member Posts: 959
From: Churchton, MD
Registered: Oct 2012
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posted 08-30-2015 03:05 PM
Robert, thanks again for the additional information. Having a mold that is "flown" may explain why there is limited to no information as to the medallion status as flown or unflown. Now the question is where is the mold? Also, how do you answer the flown vs. unflown question when the medallion itself isn't flown, but made from a flown mold/die? |
JBoe
Member Posts: 959
From: Churchton, MD
Registered: Oct 2012
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posted 09-30-2015 04:49 PM
Last night I attended the Glenn lecture series at the National Air and Space Museum in which Kathryn Sullivan was the featured speaker. At the end of the lecture we were able to talk and have autographs signed. I had the medallion with me and showed it to her and asked if she had any information or remembered seeing it on STS-41G. She had never seen it and didn't know if it was flown on her mission. Additionally, she was never aware of such artifacts being onboard.With this said I'm back to square one. I think the best bet is to find someone at NASA that has a record and knowledge/experience in preparing OFKs with flown artifacts. I haven't given up with Dr. Neal at NASM, maybe she'll have the key.Last night's encounter made me think of COAs for flown artifacts. Just by the response it appears that at least in the earlier shuttle flights the crew was unaware of such items being onboard. Once the mission was over they were probably made aware that the items and "willing" to sign COAs verifying the flown status. Given that missions were so task oriented, crews were probably kept in the dark to achieve mission objectives with as little interruptions as possible. However, I think as the shuttle program was coming to a close crews were probably made more aware and included some of their items to mark the end of an era. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42981
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-30-2015 05:46 PM
I don't think it is a case of the crews being kept in the dark as much as it was that not all of the items in the OFK were included on behalf of the crew. The astronauts could request a certain number of items each to fly. The rest was filled by NASA program offices and for contractors. From what I have seen, the astronauts did not make a regular habit of issuing COAs for any items, unless they were presenting the mementos themselves or were asked by NASA to sign presentations. I would say your best course of action is to try to find a copy of the STS-41G OFK manifest. quote:
Originally posted by JBoe:
Also, how do you answer the flown vs. unflown question when the medallion itself isn't flown, but made from a flown mold/die?
The same way I think the Apollo 11 medals are treated that were struck using a die carried on the mission. The medals themselves are not described as flown. |
JBoe
Member Posts: 959
From: Churchton, MD
Registered: Oct 2012
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posted 09-30-2015 07:45 PM
Robert, thanks again! As far as keeping the crew in the dark, I think it's more of a insignificant detail for the crew to distract them from the actual mission at hand.As far as getting a manifest, is there any suggested sources? Would a search in NTRS work? |
JBoe
Member Posts: 959
From: Churchton, MD
Registered: Oct 2012
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posted 12-03-2015 08:15 PM
The STS-41G OFK Manifest lists no specific dies and the following medallions: - 34. Pewter medallion; Principia College
- 35. Pewter medallion; Principia Upper School
- 39. 1 41-G gold medallion; Kathryn Sullivan
- 45. 1 41-G silver medallion; David Leestma
- 65. CMR medallion; Militaire Royal de ST Jean, Quebec
- 66. medal; Association of Professional Engineers of Nova Scotia
- 72, 41-G silver medaallion; Paul Scully-Powers
- 76. AGU banner and 50th anniversary medallion; American Geophysical Union
- 91. 4 gold STS-41-G medallions; National Research Council, Canada
- 92. 18 silver STS-41-G medallions; National Research Council, Canada
- 96. 34 Corning glass lenses and 1 14K jewelers gold; To be used by GAS customer to manufacture medallions as presentation items
However, it appears that item number 96 does give credence to a possible CBS/Fox medal die. The question is the quantity of the Corning glass and 14K gold used in making a die or series of dies due to wear in the minting process? I ask this because I've only seen three medals so far; two that Tim has and the one I have. |
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