|
Author
|
Topic: Alan Bean's "Armstrong, Aldrin and an American Eagle" limited edition giclee
|
randyc
Member Posts: 779
From: Chandler, AZ USA
Registered: May 2003
|
posted 08-24-2009 01:12 PM
   
Alan Bean is releasing another limited edition giclee to commemorate the 40th anniversary of the Apollo 11 moon landing. Titled "Armstrong, Aldrin and an American Eagle" the giclee depicts the Apollo 11 Lunar Module 'Eagle' as it descends to the lunar surface. It is 14 inches by 9 inches and limited to 125 signed and numbered copies. It's due to be released in mid-late September. |
lm5eagle
Member Posts: 429
From:
Registered: Jul 2007
|
posted 08-24-2009 01:27 PM
ArtUSA.com have sent out emails indicating that they are aleady taking orders. A picture of the product can be seen here. |
gliderpilotuk
Member Posts: 3398
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002
|
posted 08-25-2009 03:08 AM
Nice piece. Pity it is so small. |
Spacefest
Member Posts: 1168
From: Tucson, AZ
Registered: Jan 2009
|
posted 08-25-2009 07:26 PM
Greenwich Workshop increased the edition from 125 to 150.Our allotment of 50 sold out in two hours, so anyone sitting on the fence will need to go through ART USA or MINT-PRINT (who share an address) if they have any left. They are absent from eBay this time, probably because we cleaned them out last time! |
randyc
Member Posts: 779
From: Chandler, AZ USA
Registered: May 2003
|
posted 08-25-2009 08:20 PM
Frankly, I think that's B.S. that they increased the edition number after initially advertising that it will be 125. For many collectors the fact that the edition size was 125 made it more desirable than it would be if the edtion size was more. It doesn't matter if it sells out quickly and that there's more demand, once the edition size is announced it should not be increased. Period. I've collected limited edition art for almost 30 years and I have never seen another publisher increase the edition size once it was announced. Perhaps others have done it (which still doesn't make it right) but not with the publishers that I've dealt with. |
Spacefest
Member Posts: 1168
From: Tucson, AZ
Registered: Jan 2009
|
posted 08-25-2009 08:41 PM
Cry foul all you want, Randy. It's the publishers prerogative. We advertised it at 150.The fact is that they do this all the time. "A Giant Leap" was also increased 40% from 125 to 175. I didn't hear any grousing about that. If they regularly increase editions over 100%, then you've got a gripe. It won't even be printed for a few weeks. |
randyc
Member Posts: 779
From: Chandler, AZ USA
Registered: May 2003
|
posted 08-25-2009 08:52 PM
Sure it may be the publisher's prerogative, but it's not right. Period. So what if it won't be printed for several weeks. The initial ad stated 125, and that was the number that collectors saw when they decided to order the giclee now. Just because it's weeks away from being produced doesn't give the publisher the right to increase the edition size. If I knew that they also increased the edition size for 'A Giant Leap' you would have heard me 'grouse'. I didn't know until now. So I guess two wrongs do make a right. |
Spacefest
Member Posts: 1168
From: Tucson, AZ
Registered: Jan 2009
|
posted 08-25-2009 09:13 PM
...and they increased it LONG AFTER it was announced.Time-Life books (and others) regularly advertise a series, which hasn't even been published. If they don't get enough pre-orders, the project gets a red light, and never happens. That's the way it goes. Deal with it. I'm sure the demand for this print will drown out any grouches. A 20% increase is not a big deal on such a minuscule edition. If the edition was already printed, signed and numbered, THEN they increased the edition, that's illegal. By the way, Greenwich and I are competitors, not partners. If they consistently underestimate Alan Bean's talent and demand, they're not doing anyone any favors, or making enough money. Do the math. |
randyc
Member Posts: 779
From: Chandler, AZ USA
Registered: May 2003
|
posted 08-25-2009 09:25 PM
You and Greenwich are competitors? Come on, you sell art that they publish, and I'm sure you make a profit on every item you sell. If they didn't publish it, you wouldn't be able to sell it and make a profit. Sure they sell some of it on their own, or through other dealers, but since you don't actually publish Alan Bean art you're not a competitor.Do the math? Using your reasoning no art should be limited. Just keep on producing it until the last person orders. Of course a publisher may be able to make more that way, but what helps keep the initial price higher (and the after market prices higher) is the limited number of the edition. If there were an unlimited number of each item the initial price would be lower, perhaps much lower. |
Spacefest
Member Posts: 1168
From: Tucson, AZ
Registered: Jan 2009
|
posted 08-25-2009 09:45 PM
Greenwich and I have been at each others' throats for 20 years. I don't think they treat or market Bean right. I (and Alan) could make MUCH more if he'd give up on them and sign with me. Alan won't hear of it. He enjoys the "prestige" of being with Greenwich, even though I sell most of his Greenwich work and he knows he'd do better with me. I convinced Greenwich they should buy a giclee machine (like mine) to cut costs, and improve quality. They USED to consult with me on what to print, how many and price. Now they seem to flail in the darkness without a clue. |
Sam Que
Member Posts: 180
From: Chicago, IL, United States
Registered: Feb 2009
|
posted 08-25-2009 10:02 PM
Although I am a long time customer of NovaSpace and found Kim and Sally to be great to deal with, I have also made some purchases from ARTUSA.I just received an e-mail from ARTUSA and they are taking orders on the piece. Jay at ARTUSA is also a great to work with. As for me, if it 125 or 150 it doesn't make a difference. I am more concerned with owning the piece. |
randyc
Member Posts: 779
From: Chandler, AZ USA
Registered: May 2003
|
posted 08-25-2009 10:18 PM
Kim, I think that Alan and collector's of Alan's art would have been better served had you been publishing his work. I believe that you have a better understanding of which pieces are the most desirable from a collector's viewpoint and certainly are more focused on the space memorabilia/space art area than a 'general' publisher like Greenwich.That being said, I STILL think that increasing the edition size is wrong, but I'm a big boy and can handle/accept it! |
Aztecdoug
Member Posts: 1405
From: Huntington Beach
Registered: Feb 2000
|
posted 08-25-2009 10:41 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Spacefest:
If the edition was already printed, signed and numbered, THEN they increased the edition, that's illegal.
A few years back we picked up a few pieces by Wyland. What the heck, we live near the beach, a few miles up the road from his home studio, my wife and I both have a history of enjoying the ocean... okay, now that I have rationalized why, I gotta share this story.We ordered a s/n giclee of a turtle photograph. You can't carry stuff out of Wyland's store unless it is an original. So we waited. One day our giclee showed up at the front door, #154/750. Okay great. Then we get a call to come down to the shop and pick up our giclee? We get to the shop and discover somebody goofed and we got two. Okay, we chuckle and say stop, we already got ours. Out of curiosity I looked at the one in the shop. It too was #154/750. Well go figure... They did have a reply, but really, actions speak louder than words. Did I mention their artist proofs run about 25% of their primary run? I have tapered off on picking up the Wyland stuff since those years. Buy what you like is what they always say about art. But keep your eyes open. |
Spacefest
Member Posts: 1168
From: Tucson, AZ
Registered: Jan 2009
|
posted 08-25-2009 11:22 PM
quote:
Originally posted by randyc:
Kim, I think that Alan and collector's of Alan's art would have been better served had you been publishing his work.
Well thanks, Randy. I think it's the "generalness" that appeals to Alan. He might feel like "another space artist" here at Novaspace.When Alan signed with Greenwich, i was run by Dave Usher, a visionary who picked the two or three best artists in each genre: James Bama, Howard Terpening and Frank McCarthy-western, Craig Kodera, Bill Phillips-aviation. Bean and McCall-Space... but he died in a boating accident, and the place has never been the same. They pioneered the idea of the mass-marketed limited edition print. Since the old man died, they haven't treated Alan like the national treasure he is, concentrating on fantasy art, and Bev Dolittle's camouflaged horses. quote:
That being said, I STILL think that increasing the edition size is wrong, but I'm a big boy and can handle/accept it!
Well, I think it shows trepidation and clumsiness. Which is worse? |
gliderpilotuk
Member Posts: 3398
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002
|
posted 08-26-2009 04:39 AM
ArtUSA still have some available. Ordered mine just now - and I agree they provide good service. |
space1
Member Posts: 853
From: Danville, Ohio
Registered: Dec 2002
|
posted 08-26-2009 05:36 AM
Um, for the record, I was grousing here when the "Giant Leap" edition was increased. I am in full agreement with randyc. |
randyc
Member Posts: 779
From: Chandler, AZ USA
Registered: May 2003
|
posted 08-26-2009 09:36 AM
Based on a discussion that I had earlier today with another dealer of Alan Bean artwork this giclee has sold out. |
AJ
Member Posts: 511
From: Plattsburgh, NY, United States
Registered: Feb 2009
|
posted 08-26-2009 11:10 AM
My two cents: if you're only buying the print because it's a rare item, I have no sympathy for you on this issue. I love Alan's art and would have loved to buy one of these, not because there are so few, or because it will be more valuable, etc., but because I love his art. I'm sorry that people are so upset by an increase of 25, but what does it really matter? It's not as though all of a sudden they're printing thousands. You should be happy that you're able to buy a wonderful work of art, from a very special artist. I'm sure there are plenty of people who did not get a chance to purchase one who would gladly buy yours, whether there are 125, 150, or 200. |
Spacefest
Member Posts: 1168
From: Tucson, AZ
Registered: Jan 2009
|
posted 08-26-2009 10:23 PM
Greenwich increased our allotment by 10 this morning, so a few more are available (at issue price.) |
Spacefest
Member Posts: 1168
From: Tucson, AZ
Registered: Jan 2009
|
posted 08-27-2009 01:52 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Spacefest:
Greenwich increased our allotment by 10 this morning, so a few more are available (at issue price.)
Gone again. |
Scott Usher
New Member Posts:
From:
Registered:
|
posted 09-01-2009 05:09 PM
I hope I can be of some assistance here. There are a number of questions here I would like to address:First, on changing edition sizes. You should know that information that Jay or Kim share with collectors like yourselves when we are formulating a release, edition size and price is just that: information that is helping us formulate an edition size. The changes that you feel you are seeing in the editions (sizes)are the result of the information that we get back prior to our setting of an edition size. We have what we call A-B-C emails. Every dealer receives them. A's generally are a number of images from which we ask, Which would you like to see? B's say, Here's what was picked and here's a trial balloon on size, number of pieces and price. C's, an order confirmation e-mail, say Here's our feeling as to where to go. The catch here is that we also say, and our dealers know, that if we get enough orders that surpass the edition posted in this e-mail, we will raise the edition to serve those orders (because we have not released this image to the public). We have viewed this system as taking advantage of the available technology to serve the market better, not necessarily as being unable to make a decision. Technically, these are not "consumer" e-mails or "ads" as noted here, but ones that are sent to the dealers with the idea of setting the edition at the right size (specifically pre-publication). We know the good dealers are going to share those with their collectors (to get the info right and to get a jump on selling). Our understanding is that if they do, the collectors are made aware that these numbers can change up until the image is released. We count the release of an image as being when it is posted on our website for sale, and when dealers offer the image for sale prior to that, their collectors should be aware of what stage we are in in formulating that edition. Second, I will tell you that there has been a distinct change in Alan's program with us since my father's death. Most specifically that we have steered away from the counter-signed prints and focus on canvas editions as opposed to paper. The move away from counter-signatures was because we wanted the focus to be on Alan's painting and not the signatures. The move to canvas was because that was where our general market was heading (and maybe not the space collectible market). Third, we are proud of being able to produce Alan's work. Personally, our association with Alan is a highlight in my life. To believe or infer that we think any differently is incredulous. Alan has a wonderful new book. I would ask this panel what we ask our dealers, let us know what they would like to see us produce and how you would like to see it. Share this request with your friends. We are only as good as the information we receive. Fourth, contrary to the postings here, I have only today learned that we were at odds with Novaspace. I have only held Kim in the highest regard for his work with Alan and this community at large. Respectfully, I believe that the questions posted here could easily have been answered accurately for you by him and just as easily forwarded to us if there were additional questions. There isn't a person here at this company that would respond to a request from Kim Poor. This was an inaccurate and self-serving series of communications. Scott Usher
President and Publisher, Greenwich Workshop |
Spacefest
Member Posts: 1168
From: Tucson, AZ
Registered: Jan 2009
|
posted 09-01-2009 07:09 PM
Scott, I am pleased, but a little stunned that you would deign to post on this forum.You came on like gangbusters after your father's death. I figure you were making up for his insight with your enthusiasm. But the past few years you've been underground. I haven't heard a peep. Alan surprised me when he told me you were still there. I thought you had sold the company. Maybe it's the downtrend in art sales in general, or this economy in particular, but I still feel Alan Bean is under-appreciated by Greenwich, and the tiny editions, tiny giclees, increasing edition size, (after Novaspace comes on board) show me your tentativeness and timidity when it comes to Alan's work. I would get sick when every new Bean print would have an astronaut holding a flag. I refused to carry many of those. Alan is capable of so much more. Witness the last two (three) prints. How have they sold? Greenwich was also (like Microsoft) slow to embrace the internet. I recall a memo sent to deaers to not advertise Greenwich art on the WWW, because of image theft(!) I just would like a little creativity and maybe a little consultation on choices. What ever happened to Greenwich commissioned editions? THAT was brilliant. We both know why you stopped having Alan's editions co-signed. It is not because the market has changed. This forum attests to that. Whatever happened to art on paper? Giclee printers do that too. Less expensive. More framing choices. Anyway, I'm glad to hear Greenwich is in your hands. Maybe there's hope after all. |
paulushumungus
Member Posts: 466
From: Burton, Derbyshire, England
Registered: Oct 2005
|
posted 09-02-2009 02:50 PM
I agree with Kim's comment about the choices of Alan's releases recently. The astronaut/ flag scenario was becoming way too obvious and stale. For the recent "double print" release a couple of months ago I made a suggestion (which Kim agreed with) about Greenwich releasing Alan's wonderful paintings of the classic Buzz Aldrin photo and the "imagined" image of Neil Armstrong taking that photo. What a wasted opportunity that was. It would have been classic! And on the 40th anniversary - the idea of the punters sharing their ideas for future releases has to be the way forward.What I do like about the recent three 40th anniversary releases is that they portray a sequence of events from the first step to lift off. |
328KF
Member Posts: 1234
From:
Registered: Apr 2008
|
posted 09-06-2009 10:17 AM
The first one I have seen available on ebay, item 390090422864. $495. Ouch. |
AJ
Member Posts: 511
From: Plattsburgh, NY, United States
Registered: Feb 2009
|
posted 09-06-2009 10:27 AM
Having had the opportunity to see many of Alan's paintings at the NASM exhibit, I have to say I do find the choices of prints a little disappointing. He has some incredible pieces which I think are being overlooked. I'd love to see, for example, prints of "Small Town South Carolina Boy", "Skiing the Mountains of the Moon", or "Pete and Me". In my opinion, Alan has beautifully captured many unique moments in the exploration of the moon and if prints are being produced and sold, it would be amazing for fans and collectors to have a wider variety of work to purchase. Just my opinion! |
nick2008
New Member Posts:
From:
Registered:
|
posted 09-07-2009 12:55 PM
As a collector of Alan Bean art I would love to see Alan's paintings for real, but have to settle for his buying his prints and books, and looking on his website. One day I hope to be able to own an original, but its just a dream for now! It would be nice to think that this thread might actually influence a future release!
To continue on the theme of potential future print releases I would like to list my thoughts. - Is Anyone Out There?
- Cosmic Journey
- The Eagle Is Headed Home
- Please Take Me Back Home, Guys
- Earth is Watching
- Explorer-Artist's Vision Moonscape in orange and green. Or maybe all 4 colours?
Just a few that I like, maybe a print that shows the moonscape, moon rover or lunar surveyor could also be a good idea! Any comments and thoughts appreciated. |
paulushumungus
Member Posts: 466
From: Burton, Derbyshire, England
Registered: Oct 2005
|
posted 09-08-2009 03:53 PM
Nick, welcome to collectSPACE (although you've been around for a month or two) - at last, a fellow "Stokey" on collectSPACE. |
Scott Usher
New Member Posts:
From:
Registered:
|
posted 09-10-2009 08:47 AM
Thank you for the thoughts on new releases. I will post later today a set to make a selection from. |
AJ
Member Posts: 511
From: Plattsburgh, NY, United States
Registered: Feb 2009
|
posted 09-11-2009 12:36 AM
Purely out of curiosity, I would be interested to hear how much input Alan himself has on which paintings are chosen for prints. Does he have particular favorites, or is it largely the decision of Greenwich? |
Spacefest
Member Posts: 1168
From: Tucson, AZ
Registered: Jan 2009
|
posted 09-11-2009 12:53 AM
Alan seems surprised at whatever comes out until he signs them. I often am told (by customers) what's coming up before Alan even knows. He may have some cursory input on some items, but it's largely a marketing decision on what sells best. I have been left out of the loop, probably because I picked "Right Stuff Field Geologists" and it bombed. Still one of my favorites, though. |
328KF
Member Posts: 1234
From:
Registered: Apr 2008
|
posted 09-11-2009 04:55 PM
It's seems like an impossible task to predict how well one of Alan's prints will sell. I look forward to the results of the list idea that Scott has proposed.As far as the "astronaut and a flag" issue discussed above, they do seem to sell very well. "Straightening Our Stripes" is in this category, and it's gone, while "Field Geologists" and even the classic "Fantasy" are still available, the latter even after more than a decade and the passing of Pete Conrad. Go figure... One of my favorites that I have is "American Success Story." It really has to be seen in person to appreciate it fully. While it looks on a small computer screen like it fits the above category, two things really stand out in the Giclee. One is the completely smooth, shiny black background, and the other is the bright blue and white Earth, and the contrast between the two is striking. From time to time, Alan turns his paintings upside down while he's working on them to get a different perspective on the piece. I did that with this Giclee, and amazingly, it was the first time I realized there were THREE american flags in the painting. The big one, the reflection in Young's visor, and the one on his sleeve. Having just seen his originals in D.C., I would say the best new painting is "Is There Anyone Out There?" If that's on Scott's list, it gets my vote! |
Spacefest
Member Posts: 1168
From: Tucson, AZ
Registered: Jan 2009
|
posted 09-11-2009 06:16 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 328KF:
It's seems like an impossible task to predict how well one of Alan's prints will sell.
It's true; but leaning on one successful theme is the easy way out, and doesn't do the artist or collectors justice. With the increasing international market (most of our stuff is bought by the UK) putting in a flag every time might seem excessive. We'd certainly resent it if it was done to us. Counter-signed Bean prints sold well, and were usually underpriced (In the Beginning @ $600) But that was when signatures were cheap(er). |
Dennis Beatty
Member Posts: 356
From:
Registered: Jan 2000
|
posted 09-11-2009 10:04 PM
Regarding "Is Anyone Out There?" I like it as well...it is a gorgeous piece, but as it is VERY similar to the previous release "Hello Universe" I'd prefer to see something else published.As for the concern of offending the "international market" by offering images with the American flag: I realize that in order to maximize sales, products must be designed with the end customer in mind...but, it was America and the American taxpayer who put humans on the Moon (no slight meant to those from outside the USA who contributed as well...I'm sort of painting with broad brush strokes here) so I see nothing wrong with the prominence of the flag in the images. Six flags were planted on the lunar surface... and they are all the "Stars and Stripes". Why be timid about it? If the argument is that aesthetically the theme is tired so be it...but if hiding our colors is merely a means to an end (increased foreign sales) then I must politely disagree. |
328KF
Member Posts: 1234
From:
Registered: Apr 2008
|
posted 09-11-2009 10:35 PM
Good points Dennis. The two paintings do share a similar theme, but they are very different in how they are painted. Bean has gone through several phases in his work, and "Hello Universe" is one of his projects done with a bright, multi-colored background which is much more impressionistic than the jet-black sky I mentioned previously."Anyone" is one of the originals I saw in person, and it is spectacular. Somehow, having the full figure of the astronaut, the lunar surface, and all of that blackness really comes together in a powerful image. In some ways, it reminds me more of "Heavenly Reflections" (another overlooked print) than it does "Hello Universe." There are a few of Bean's works which demonstrate his great ability to show the emotions of the astronauts, even though their faces are hidden behind a gold visor. These two paintings are good examples. |
Spacefest
Member Posts: 1168
From: Tucson, AZ
Registered: Jan 2009
|
posted 09-12-2009 03:21 PM
We've recommended "One Lucky Guy" (a self-portrait) if they do a print for the Apollo 12 anniversary in Nov., in time for Christmas.It was also the frontispiece in the new Chaikin/Bean book. |
ilbasso
Member Posts: 1522
From: Greensboro, NC USA
Registered: Feb 2006
|
posted 09-24-2009 04:18 PM
My "AA&AE" arrived in today's mail! |
328KF
Member Posts: 1234
From:
Registered: Apr 2008
|
posted 09-24-2009 04:32 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ilbasso:
My "AA&AE" arrived in today's mail!
That's great news! Faster than I expected. Is it the advertized size or did they make it any larger? |
ilbasso
Member Posts: 1522
From: Greensboro, NC USA
Registered: Feb 2006
|
posted 09-24-2009 06:52 PM
Mine is numbered 24/150. (Sorry, Kim, I had to get it from ArtUSA after you sold out! You were my first choice.) |
328KF
Member Posts: 1234
From:
Registered: Apr 2008
|
posted 09-24-2009 06:55 PM
I should re-phrase the question. What I meant to say was are the physical dimensions as advertized (9 x 12") or did they make it larger, as they did with "a Giant Leap"? |
ilbasso
Member Posts: 1522
From: Greensboro, NC USA
Registered: Feb 2006
|
posted 09-24-2009 09:23 PM
It's just slightly less than 9"x14". |
advertisement