Author
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Topic: Some Trust in Chariots (James Gene Thomas)
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Naraht Member Posts: 232 From: Oxford, UK Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 06-16-2006 06:28 AM
It's self-published with a Christian press, but it's still a book. Anyone going to buy this one? I'd like to read a review before I shell out... Some Trust in Chariots by James A. (Gene) Thomas Gene Thomas was a principal participant in the events surrounding the Shuttle Challenger tragedy in January, 1986. As NASA's Launch Director at the Kennedy Space Center, Thomas gave the final "Go" to launch Challenger on that cold Florida morning. As a Christian, he felt the grace of God's abiding love as his faith was tested on that fateful day. He expresses, through this candid close-up account, the events and political environment leading to the Challenger accident. He gives an insider's view of how the amazing Shuttle is launched and the bravery of the men and women who fly it. With humor, candor, and personal experiences, he relates the real story behind America's first major space tragedy. He shares how God's grace was sufficient and affirms that nothing can separate the Christian from "the love of God which is in Christ Jesus." - Paperback: 268 pages
- Publisher: Xulon Press (May 12, 2006)
- ISBN-10: 1600340962
- ISBN-13: 978-1600340963
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KSCartist Member Posts: 2896 From: Titusville, FL USA Registered: Feb 2005
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posted 06-16-2006 07:13 AM
I had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Thomas. I'll definitely buy this book. |
cspg Member Posts: 6210 From: Geneva, Switzerland Registered: May 2006
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posted 06-16-2006 12:10 PM
Definitely not. Maybe if nobody mentioned "Christian Press" (gee, isn't Christian Rock enough?), I would have considered it but now if we have to place the "Lord" (whatever that is) into the picture... No offense meant to anybody. |
Aztecdoug Member Posts: 1405 From: Huntington Beach Registered: Feb 2000
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posted 06-16-2006 01:02 PM
quote: Originally posted by cspg: No offense meant to anybody.
With all due respect that is sort of like telling somebody you hate everything about them, but you didn't mean to offend them. |
GACspaceguy Member Posts: 2474 From: Guyton, GA Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 06-16-2006 02:02 PM
Thanks for the heads up. I just ordered the book. I think it will be interesting to hear a Christian perspective of that emotional event. - "God speed John Glenn" — Friendship 7
- "In the beginning God..." - Apollo 8
- "My help comes from the Lord who makes Heaven an Earth" — Apollo 15
Just a few examples of God as I have heard on the NASA channel, it's hard to keep the Lord out of a good thing. |
Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 42981 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 06-16-2006 02:42 PM
quote: Originally posted by GACspaceguy: Just a few examples of God as I have heard on the NASA channel
And in each case, its use has served to alienate people back here on the "good Earth", which is why religion is one of the few taboo topics here on collectSPACE. |
FFrench Member Posts: 3161 From: San Diego Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 06-16-2006 02:50 PM
On the strict subject of somewhat off-topic themes such as religion in otherwise wholly "space" books - there are a number such as Jim Irwin's book, Charlie Duke's book, where religion played a factor. Not necessarily parts of the book that I'd turn to first to reread, but they did not detract from my overall very enjoyable reading experience, and in fact told me another side of the person writing it. I'd hesitate to reject a book out of hand simply because some of the subject matter isn't wholly space. I remember a number of people putting down Frank Borman's book when it came out because "half of it is about Eastern Airlines." I found it an interesting read and an intriguing answer to that perennial question - "what do you do next in your career after you have been to the moon?" |
Naraht Member Posts: 232 From: Oxford, UK Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 06-16-2006 02:59 PM
quote: Originally posted by Robert Pearlman: And in each case, its use has served to alienate people back here on the "good Earth", which is why religion is one of the few taboo topics here on collectSPACE.
Apologies if I went over the line by mentioning the subject. I thought it was an important aspect of the book.
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Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 42981 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 06-16-2006 03:05 PM
quote: Originally posted by Naraht: Apologies if I went over the line by mentioning the subject. I thought it was an important aspect of the book.
No, your post was fine; I just wanted to warn against this becoming a debate on the virtues (or lack thereof) of religion. As Francis showed, there have been a number of books that have some crossover between Christian publishing and space history. Another example that he didn't mention but comes to mind is Evelyn Husband's book, High Calling. |
GACspaceguy Member Posts: 2474 From: Guyton, GA Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 06-16-2006 03:13 PM
My point was that you can't throw out or discard a source just because it mentions God. |
cspg Member Posts: 6210 From: Geneva, Switzerland Registered: May 2006
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posted 06-17-2006 02:07 AM
When you have a bad day (which is probably no excuse), you may overlook the significance of certain things you say, do or write. If I'm a Christian myself (at least by birth), what ticked me off with the book is the combination "Christian/self-published /Christian Press". Such combination makes me question the motives behind it, that's all I wanted to point out. Both Fred and Francis make excellent points in their posts regarding Christian quotes and Charlie Duke's book and I fully agree with them (especially with Francis' question: what do you do after you've been to the Moon?). And I'm glad Naraht provided such information and personally I don't think he crossed the line. If anyone did, it's me. And I will follow Robert Pearlman's post, that religion is (and should be, I may add) a taboo topic on this forum. Again, my apologies for any misunderstanding I may have caused. |
atlas5guy Member Posts: 33 From: Registered: Jun 2007
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posted 07-23-2007 10:07 PM
During a recent visit to the gift shop at the Kennedy Space Center Visitor Complex, I picked up a new Challenger memoir (2006) by James A. (Gene) Thomas, the 51-L Launch Director at KSC. Called "Some Trust In Chariots, The Space Shuttle Challenger Experience," the book appears to be published by an obscure religious publisher (Xulon), but this doesn't appear to have affected the contents of the book. The bulk of the book is a detailed account of the Challenger tragedy from Thomas' point of view and his opinions of the Rogers Commission findings. At first glance the memoir appeared to be a self-serving defense of the Challenger launch decision, but Thomas' arguments were sincere and well reasoned. He rejects the persistent notion that pressure was applied from above to launch Challenger before Pres. Reagan's State of the Union speech, and he does not believe that the 'system was flawed' to permit the ill-fated launch. Thomas attributes the disaster to a failure of the booster engineers to communicate the problems with the O-ring seals to the upper level management. Thomas is adamant that the launch decision was made by the "book" (the Launch Commit Criteria) that morning. He states that if the criteria for SRB temperature limits had read 31 degrees instead of 53 degrees, there would not have been a shuttle launch on Jan. 28, 1986. He says that he was not made aware of the growing evidence that O-ring seals were failing to prevent hot gas 'blow-by' during recent launches. Compared to Richard Cook's 2006 book "Challenger Revealed," Gene Thomas' memoir is an interesting but minor addition to the Challenger literature. For someone who was so intimately involved in shuttle development and operations (Thomas joined NASA in 1962, worked on the Apollo and shuttle programs before retiring in 1997 as KSC Deputy Center Director), the author says the most curious thing on p. 243. Seemingly unaware of the Moon and Mars initiative announced by Pres. Bush in 2004, Thomas writes that 'I confidently believe that the shuttle will continue to be America's only manned access to space for at least the first two decades of the 21st Century.' News indeed to NASA and the workers at the Michoud Facility who are currently producing the final 15 shuttle fuel tanks in anticipation of its retirement in 2010. Aside from this gaffe, Thomas' detailed account of the Challenger accident is still a worthwhile read - it is up to the reader to evaluate how useful this account is to the existing lore of Challenger. |
WAWalsh Member Posts: 809 From: Cortlandt Manor, NY Registered: May 2000
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posted 07-24-2007 12:11 PM
quote: Originally posted by atlas5guy: Aside from this gaffe, Thomas' detailed account of the Challenger accident is still a worthwhile read...
I would not bet on this being a gaffe. Whether or not Ares flies by 2021 will be interesting to watch. Will Congress continue the funding? Given the next administration support the project? Will the project and the ISS end up competing for funds? Will the need for developing a reliable vehicle to reach the ISS preempt Ares for a few years?As much as I may want it, I am not sure that I would bet that the US will return to the Moon before 2020. |
medaris Member Posts: 181 From: United Kingdom Registered: Mar 2007
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posted 07-24-2007 02:56 PM
I bought a copy of this from Boggs Space Books when it was published. They had signed copies for the cover price ($16, I think). It was a reasonable read, and I picked up a few interesting snippets from it. I didn't find the Christian references in this book overpowering. It perhaps wasn't as well edited as it would have been with a traditional publisher but, personally, I'm eager for a wider range of people than the 'usual suspects' to publish accounts of their NASA experience. If they self-publish at this price, then I'm happy to buy them. |
KC Stoever Member Posts: 1012 From: Denver, CO USA Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 07-24-2007 04:02 PM
For the record: "Godspeed" is spelled as one word. It's kind of saying, have a good and speedy journey, and is as religious in meaning as "good-bye," itself a more modern contraction of the original "God be with you." Now part of the lexicon of the earnestly gung-ho, "Godspeed" was used on February 20, 1962, because more than anything that morning Glenn needed speed. The Atlas was certainly up to the task, but in those parlous days, even the secular invoked God in the blockhouse. |
Lunatiki Member Posts: 237 From: Amarillo, TX, USA Registered: Dec 2006
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posted 07-26-2007 09:39 PM
quote: Originally posted by Robert Pearlman: As Francis showed, there have been a number of books that have some crossover between Christian publishing and space history. Another example that he didn't mention but comes to mind is Evelyn Husband's book, High Calling.
Christians are a big part of space exploration. Some of them have given their life for the space program and NASA. Anyone who wants to know anything about Cmdr Rick Husband will learn nothing meaningful about him in regards to NASA and STS-107 unless they look at his faith. As mentioned earlier, I think Apollo 8 says it all. From Shepard's prayer to Reagan's Challenger memorial speech, the Christian religon has always been a part of America's space exploration. |
Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 42981 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 07-26-2007 10:06 PM
I think its somewhat of a stretch to claim that the Christian religion — or any religion for that matter — has always been a part of U.S. space exploration. That believers of one faith or another have taken part in the activity is only logical as the population of the U.S. includes people of different religions. The crew of Apollo 8 read from the beginning of the Old Testament, so technically, they were quoting Jewish scripture. Shepard's prayer and Reagan's memorial speech were secular (Reagan was quoting from "High Flight" and Shepard was being humorous). Husband was a devout Christian but that wasn't the role he played aboard Columbia. In regards to giving their life, so have others of different faiths. Space exploration is a scientific and engineering pursuit. If those that participate in it choose to observe the traditions of their own faith while taking part in it, that's an admirable but private affair. To suggest that any one religion has a hand in exploration is to overlook the reasons we explore. |
FFrench Member Posts: 3161 From: San Diego Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 07-27-2007 12:18 AM
quote: Originally posted by Medaris: I bought a copy of this from Boggs Space Books when it was published. They had signed copies
And they still do. Boggs offer a great service, and I highly recommend them. |
Lunatiki Member Posts: 237 From: Amarillo, TX, USA Registered: Dec 2006
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posted 07-27-2007 09:14 AM
As far as I know, Christians believe the old testament, and its the same "God" as the new testament. I'm not well read on it, but I might be wrong. Robert, do you really think Shepard was joking? I always got the feeling he was 100% dead serious about what he said, but said it with a "John Wayne" type of attitude. And what about Aldrin taking communion on the lunar surface? I'm not saying NASA is a Christian organization, I'm just saying Christianity, its practices and people have been a big part of US space exploration and it shouldn't be dismissed as not mattering. And I'm saying this as a person who hasn't stepped foot in a church in many, many years. |
Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 42981 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 07-27-2007 10:50 AM
quote: Originally posted by Lunatiki: I'm just saying Christianity, its practices and people have been a big part of US space exploration...
The same could be said about most other religions and those who believe in no religion at all.I certainly do not want my comments to offend anyone. My own reply probably violated the rules I set for discussing religion on these boards that were chosen to avoid offending any reader. This type of discussion is probably best left for in-person encounters, as it is very difficult to convey tone and intention through the written word (or at least through message-board style writing). I probably read too much into Joel's "big part" comment and for that I apologize. |
Lunatiki Member Posts: 237 From: Amarillo, TX, USA Registered: Dec 2006
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posted 07-27-2007 10:50 AM
quote: Originally posted by Robert Pearlman: The same could be said about most other religions and those who believe in no religion at all.
Well, not to sound too stubborn, but I would like to know of any other historic US Space Exploration quotes/acts that refer to Allah, Buddah or pagen rituals performed on the lunar surface. |
Lunatiki Member Posts: 237 From: Amarillo, TX, USA Registered: Dec 2006
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posted 07-27-2007 10:58 AM
I'll drop the subject by saying no one offended me in the least and hope I didn't offend anyone. I just don't think history should be forgotten and trumped by what is considered politically correct nowadays. Fun discussion though. |
KC Stoever Member Posts: 1012 From: Denver, CO USA Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 07-27-2007 11:53 AM
Rob, for what it's worth, you didn't offend me at all. Your editorial was thoughtful, well reasoned, well argued, and well stated. |
C. Thomas New Member Posts: From: Registered:
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posted 05-19-2012 07:14 PM
I realize how old these postings are, but in reading through some of the very thoughtful comments about his book, I thought I would write on his behalf in case there might still be some interest. I am Gene Thomas' son and in reference to his self-published book entitled Some Trust in Chariots, Gene shopped his book to most of the big publishers and they had tremendous interest in the writing. Unfortunately, despite the book's minor references to his own personal faith, the major publishing houses were ultimately not interested due to the religious overtones. However, for Gene, that story arc was an important one because he wanted to share with those who were interested in the Challenger story that despite the tragedies that happen in life, some on a national scale, yet there is faith in God to which one may turn to find hope and purpose beyond the loss and pain caused by such devastation. To be honest, for anyone to suggest that personal faith in God does not play a role at NASA, and I am one who knows from personal experience, is for someone to be standing on the outside looking in. You are just simply unaware that faith exists and flourishes in that kind of environment, as surely as for others at NASA, faith plays no part at all. The incredible men and women at NASA are pushing the envelope of science and space exploration, so of course those endeavors are first and foremost on their minds and agendas, but in times of great tragedy, they are quick to turn to their faith in God for solace and comfort. Gene has always called the space shuttle a chariot of fire, which is an Old Testament reference to the mysterious vehicle that ushered Elijah into the heavens. The Old Testament says, "some trust in chariots, but we will trust in the name of the Lord our God." Despite Gene's personal involvement in "chariots" that carried men to the moon and back, what trumps that is his concern to see humankind's trust in God. Anyone remotely familiar with the goings on at KSC are aware that Gene Thomas is a person of quiet, humble faith. This was key to his emotional health and personal recovery during the dark days following the Challenger accident that sent several of his friends to their deaths. Trust in God is a remarkable resource in which to turn for those who have been given the faith to believe. Thank you for your time. |
Chariot412 Member Posts: 156 From: Lockport, NY, 14094 Registered: Jun 2011
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posted 05-20-2012 10:31 PM
Looking forward to reading it. Now, what was that poem I had to memorize at the Academy: "Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth..." |