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Author
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Topic: Ranking moonwalkers' autographs by rarity
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AstroAutos
Member Posts: 803
From: Co. Monaghan, Republic of Ireland
Registered: Mar 2009
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posted 08-12-2009 05:19 PM
   
I wanted to see in what order the 12 moonwalkers autographs are by rarity (with 1 being rarest). Would you agree with this list? - John Young
- Neil Armstrong
- Al Shepard
- Pete Conrad
- Jim Irwin
- Jack Schmitt
- Dave Scott
- Buzz Aldrin
- Gene Cernan
- Al Bean
- Ed Mitchell
- Charlie Duke
I know some of them are common on say moonshots, but extremely rare on WSS lithos and vice versa, but this list is just regarding their signatures in general. |
DSeuss5490
Member Posts: 299
From: Columbus, Ohio USA
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 08-12-2009 05:46 PM
If RR Auction's sales are any indication, it seems as though Neil Armstrong autographs outnumber the others by at least 2-1 in most auctions, possibly because of the potential profit versus other astronauts. While I don't think Armstrong is the most common, I'm not quite so sure he would be no. 2 either. I agree with Young and Shepard, although I had good luck with Shepard through the mail in he 80's. Bean and Scott were next to impossible through the mail and up until several years ago very difficult autographs to get. I had very good luck with all of the others through the mail, even Armstrong and Young. As a sidenote, when I was the editor of my university newspaper, I mailed a questionnaire to Armstrong around the time of the anniversary of Apollo 11. He filled out (by hand) simple responses to the questions rather than being personally interviewed (his choice). When asked about signing autographs his response included "that its part of being in the public eye and is expected of me. I have probably signed at least 100,000 autographs since Apollo 11!" (And that was in 1984 and long before eBay and 10 years before he stopped signing!) |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 08-12-2009 06:03 PM
- John Young
- Alan Shepard
- Dave Scott
- Harrison Schmitt
- Neil Armstrong
- Jim Irwin
- Pete Conrad
- Gene Cernan
- Ed Mitchell
- Alan Bean
- Charlie Duke
- Buzz Aldrin
Young is the easy #1 here, even if his signed shuttle portraits were sent out for free over the years. His signing fee will probably always make him the least available signature of the group (even if it's not the most valuable.) Scott didn't sign for a lot of years (and maybe was close to Young... or above him... for the rarest spot for a long time), then resumed with a fee (well over $100) that didn't allow many to indulge in more than one or two signatures each. But he's probably inching his way down the list with each appearance he makes.Shepard seemed to stop signing regularly before the hobby really took off. In the 90s, he signed his book, but probably not a lot else. Prior to that, TTM successes were not nearly as prolific as with Conrad and Irwin... and secretarials lessened the number of authentic replies. Conrad and Irwin were prolific signers and basic items are easy to find, but they will possibly get higher on the list over time. Same, of course, for Armstrong... but since he often limited himself on how much he would sign for any one person, he's rarer than Irwin and Conrad. I had trouble choosing between Armstrong and Schmitt. Certainly, Armstrong seems rarer, if you're trying to collect his signature on a budget. But I imagine he got more autograph requests than any other astronaut on the list... and, until the 90s, fulfilled a lot of those requests. Schmitt probably got only a fraction of the number of requests, but signed for nearly a decade longer (for free). While Bean, Duke, and Mitchell have historically charged less for their signatures and have been more accessible than Buzz (and are popular with many collectors), they don't have the same appeal as Buzz does with the general population... where demand for his (and Neil's) signature stretches well beyond the confines of the hobby. Even when he charges $350 a signature he often has the longest line at autograph shows. Plus Buzz has written more books and has done more book signing appearances than all of the other astronauts. (For example, I bet he's signed over 10,000 copies of his latest book in the past couple months.) Start talking about the 24 moon voyagers and it changes the whole dynamic of the list... with Swigert, Anders, and Roosa taking the clear lead over the rest of the pack. |
AstroAutos
Member Posts: 803
From: Co. Monaghan, Republic of Ireland
Registered: Mar 2009
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posted 08-12-2009 06:54 PM
quote:
Originally posted by mjanovec:
Start talking about the 24 moon voyagers and it changes the whole dynamic of the list... with Swigert, Anders, and Roosa taking the clear lead over the rest of the pack.
Let's do just that... it'll make the list bigger and more interesting. Anyone care for a list of 24? |
SpaceSteve
Member Posts: 431
From: San Antonio TX, USA
Registered: Apr 2004
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posted 08-13-2009 12:31 AM
Here's my wag at the 24 moon voyagers (toughest to easiest): - Anders
- Swigert
- Roosa
- Mattingly
- Collins
- Young
- Armstrong
- Stafford
- Irwin
- Scott
- Shepard
- Evans
- Schmitt
- Conrad
- Cernan
- Borman
- Lovell
- Gordon
- Bean
- Worden
- Haise
- Duke
- Mitchell
- Aldrin
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kr4mula
Member Posts: 642
From: Cinci, OH
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 08-13-2009 11:42 AM
When I was interning at NASA (over 10 years ago now!), John Young would always sign his pictures for students, as long as they were his standard NASA photo (or occasionally another litho if that was all they had) and they were always inscribed. He would balk at more obviously commercial or collector's items, but I saw him sign an awful lot of these sorts of pictures over those few years. I got several myself, so I never thought his were especially rare, but I guess they are. So if you're looking for one, maybe hit up a college student to ask him for one.  |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 08-13-2009 12:09 PM
quote:
Originally posted by kr4mula:
I got several myself, so I never thought his were especially rare, but I guess they are.
None of the moonwalkers autographs are "rare." They can be rare in certain formats and on certain types of items, but the signatures of any of the 12 are not rare by any stretch of the imagination. |
medaris
Member Posts: 181
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2007
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posted 09-02-2009 02:39 PM
In a recent BBC documentary, the presenter spoke to a professor who had worked with Neil Armstrong in his university days. He described the Armstrong autograph production line. It sounded as if he signed autographs for two hours a day, two or three days a week. While this sounds incredible, I suppose it does fit with Armstrong's filling of requests until he stopped signing. If you assume, for argument, that he did this forty weeks a year for one year, and that it took him one minute to inscribe and sign a photo (an overestimate, I feel) then you get 60 x 2 x 3 x 40 = 14,400 autographs in a year. Others may disagree with the assumptions, but no matter how you cut it, it sounds like a lot of autographs over Armstrong's signing career. |
Daniel Lazecky
Member Posts: 485
From: Czech Republic-Europe
Registered: Oct 2007
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posted 09-02-2009 03:44 PM
Yes about it, it is to be. I revere and make reckoning of very Mr Armstrong. He as well as for me so other legend.I trust in the previous words "medaris" and arrange him behind truth also. With pleasure express, I I beg to differ with exaggerated, excessive traffic in autograph Mr. Armstrong not only. Every autograph from spaceman and or cosmonaut - formulation kindness and understanding from them their. |
DSeuss5490
Member Posts: 299
From: Columbus, Ohio USA
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted 09-02-2009 04:00 PM
As noted in my earlier post above, Armstrong himself indicated to me that he had signed over 100,000 autographs (this was up to 1984). While I doubt he kept track of the numbers, he is certainly acknowledging that the numbers are very high. There is a gentleman I know locally who went to the Univ. Of Cinn. when Armstrong was teaching there. Apparently his office kept a large supply of signed WSS photos for student admirers and one could be had just for showing up at his office and asking his assistant. |
Rick Mulheirn
Member Posts: 4229
From: England
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 09-02-2009 04:28 PM
According to a recent BBC documentary Armstrong spent an hour of each working day over a 10 year period, signing autographs whilst at the University. NASA paid a large part of his assistants salary such was the demand for his signature. |
Kevin Carrico
Member Posts: 70
From: Salina, Kansas, USA
Registered: May 2004
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posted 09-05-2009 09:36 AM
Of the thousands of autographs that Neil Armstrong signed, how many have survived the fading process and/or the trash? I wonder how many were tacked up onto walls or displayed in frames upon receipt and years later just tossed out. (The old mom tosses out the baseball cards scenario). My guess is that you can take the total number that Neil signed and divide that number in half and you would have a fairly close approximation as to the number that are still in existence and in good shape. Of course, nobody will ever know for sure. |
ilbasso
Member Posts: 1522
From: Greensboro, NC USA
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 09-05-2009 10:06 AM
My guess is that less than one-tenth of them survive, maybe less than that. That's based on my own family's experience. Many adults may have saved the signed photos, but you can bet that the vast majority weren't kept in good condition. The ones most likely to have made it were probably tucked into the back of photo albums. Of the ones that adults got for their kids, I would bet that 98% didn't survive the kids' childhoods! I was a fanatic space enthusiast as a kid, and even so, a lot of my space stuff was disposed of one way or another when I went off to college and lost my old room at home (so my kid sisters didn't have to share a room any more). My Armstrong, Collins, and Anders photos were in photo frames and hung on my wall at home for several years before I went off to college. Luckily, they were not in direct sunlight! I had two boxes of stuff that stayed in my parents' attic after I went to college, and those photos - still in their frames - were among them. My Collins photo eventually stuck to the glass in a few places after years in the frame, but luckily not the Armstrong or Anders. |
Dirk
Member Posts: 946
From: Belgium
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 09-05-2009 04:51 PM
It is maybe rare to say, but after a moonwalkers death his signature becomes easy to obtain, as many "collectors" put their items for sale at that moment.At this moment a Shepard, Conrad or Irwin is easy to find. I think a signed Swigert WSS is the rarest of all Apollo astronauts today. At this moment a lot of collectors have a signature of Armstrong, and I think, when Armstrong dies his signature will be easy to get because a lot of genuine, autopen, preprinted an forgeries will come up for sale. Those who are collecting since the early Apollo years will say that Anders was the most difficult to obtain. |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 09-06-2009 12:51 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Dirk:
At this moment a Shepard, Conrad or Irwin is easy to find.
I don't think either Conrad or Irwin were ever hard to find. And neither was Shepard... at least on certain items. But each has their difficult/expensive items to find too... Shepard on the moon, Conrad on the moon, Irwin WSS. quote:
At this moment a lot of collectors have a signature of Armstrong, and I think, when Armstrong dies his signature will be easy to get because a lot of genuine, autopen, preprinted an forgeries will come up for sale.
While some people will obviously try to "cash in" when Armstrong passes, I think it's safe to say that Armstrong's signature is easy to find today. At any given moment, there are plenty of examples up for auction or for sale. The only thing "difficult" about obtaining an Armstrong signature is paying for it. |
jemmy
Member Posts: 183
From:
Registered: Dec 2010
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posted 06-05-2020 12:58 PM
I came across this thread from 2009. Interesting to see the points of view from some time back. I would like to hear opinions on current rarity of moonwalkers signed photos and Apollo astronaut signed photos. |
capoetc
Member Posts: 2198
From: McKinney TX (USA)
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 06-05-2020 02:53 PM
I think SpaceSteve's list above (ranking the 24) is still pretty valid. The only major change I see is you could probably drop Dave Scott down 5-6 spots since he has done quite a few autograph shows in recent years. You can make a case that the bottom 10-12 or so on the list could almost be tied for "easiest to find." Barring any large stashes of autographed items showing up on the market in the future, I would expect the rankings to remain mostly unchanged going forward. At this point, for all intents and purposes, the supply will remain the same except for items being damaged or destroyed through flood, fire, sunlight or neglect. |
jimsz
Member Posts: 621
From:
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted 06-05-2020 09:59 PM
I was fortunate as I received at least 17 of the 24 through the mail as a boy during and after Apollo (they have since been authenticated). Scott was very generous withstanding me a WSS as well as full crew. 
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Mike Dixon
Member Posts: 1456
From: Kew, Victoria, Australia
Registered: May 2003
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posted 06-05-2020 10:40 PM
I wonder how much uninscribed or non-personalized lithos might alter that list? |
Rick Mulheirn
Member Posts: 4229
From: England
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 06-06-2020 09:25 AM
If we are talking uninscribed moonwalker WSS lithos, recent auction prices would suggest Jim Irwin would be top of the pops with perhaps Al Shepard second.
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