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Author Topic:   Quantifying autographs signed by astronauts
Ken Havekotte
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Posts: 2912
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 01-24-2017 01:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would think that John Glenn throughout his life has probably signed more autograph requests (in all categories) than Neil Armstrong has, and for that matter, more than any other astronaut and cosmonaut.

Yuri Gagarin, however, might be close to Glenn, but of course he was killed only a few short years after becoming the first man to ride a rocket into space and achieving orbital flight. But so little is known about Gagarin's autograph activities and in such a short time before his passing.

With Glenn being an original first 7, first American to orbit the earth, a long-time U.S. Senator with attending so many public functions, has always been in the public eye for nearly half-a-century.

He even once told me that he must have signed a "million of those Mercury first day covers" and always tried his best to answer fan mail and signature requests of
all kinds. On top of that, the astronaut pioneer-turned senator said he never (hardly ever) used the autopen machine for signature requests. And he never charged a dime for providing autographs after he left the US Senate.

Just curious to know, though, about how many autographs Glenn had signed throughout his astronaut, corporate, Senate and retirement career. Do you think maybe in the hundred(s) of thousands?

Armstrong, on the other hand, has of course been a good "mail signer" from his
astronaut, NASA Headquarters and teaching days until about 1994 when he stopped signing in most cases, even though his autopens were frequently applied when at NASA from 1962-71.

Mailed-in requests to the first lunar surface explorer were usually honored before the early 1990's, however, I have no idea of how many requests the first moonwalker received altogether.

But with Armstrong's limitations for autograph seekers, even though we know he signed thousands and thousands of autographs, I still think is far below Glenn in numbers.

Rick Mulheirn
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From: England
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posted 01-24-2017 04:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick Mulheirn   Click Here to Email Rick Mulheirn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
During a documentary shown on British tv shortly after Neil Armstrong passed away it was noted that while Professor of Aerospace Engineering at Cincinnati University he would typically spend an hour each and every morning signing autographs and dealing with fan mail.

Steve Zarelli
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From: Upstate New York, USA
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posted 01-24-2017 04:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Steve Zarelli   Click Here to Email Steve Zarelli     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would also think that Glenn has to be #1 in terms of through the mail autographs.

It gets a bit more complicated, however, once you factor in paid signings. There are a tremendous amount of signed items from many of the regulars, e.g., Mitchell, Duke, Bean, Carpenter, Gordon, etc. While they may be a bit pricey to "stock up on now," there was a time when they would sign through private deals for a few dollars a signature. Some people stocked up big time.

Glenn's signature has to exist in hundreds of thousands and probably approaches a million. For some of the regulars, I think it's safe to say it has to be tens of thousands... maybe six figures in some cases.

Armstrong is tougher to gauge. Given he signed freely for around 35 years and he was the no. 1 target of collectors... I'd guess low six figures, many of which are faded to almost nothing at this point!

Mike Dixon
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From: Kew, Victoria, Australia
Registered: May 2003

posted 01-24-2017 04:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mike Dixon   Click Here to Email Mike Dixon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Didn't know much about their respective signing habits before I joined here, but read enough over the years to see and know Glenn would be far FAR out in front of anyone else.

Is it possible that Aldrin might have overtaken Armstrong?

Ken Havekotte
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From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
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posted 01-24-2017 06:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As Steve pointed out, the paid signings for "the regulars" on the circuit does indeed amount up in certain numbers. But I do not recall too many commercial nor private astronaut signings before the late 1990's or so.

There were only a handful of commercial signings done in the earlier decades; the most famous with Hermann Sieger in 1970. He was a German stamp dealer that arranged to have thousands of space stamp souvenir sheets signed by flown astronauts at the time. Armstrong participated as did John Glenn, though no longer with NASA at the time.

It should be noted, though Steve, that Glenn had also signed literally thousands and thousands of autographs in person when he would participate in so many space activities and other private, public, and legislature functions all throughout his long career.

During one of Glenn's appearances after his shuttle flight was a big dinner gala at a Disney World resort in 1999. I was there helping with the function and near the end of the dinner event, Glenn announced that he would be happy to sign for attendees and pose for pictures. That's just what he did, and for almost 75 minutes he stood there in the same place signing autographs (mostly programs of the gala) and posing for countless photos. When offering him a chair to sit and trying to provide a table of sorts in signing, he politely declined, and told me he would be just fine standing up. During that incredible evening, I would estimate he personally signed hundreds of items. Not once did he I hear Sen. Glenn complain about signing too much nor taking so many pictures as he graciously greeted each person in line and thanked them for coming.

Others were forthcoming; a German space cover dealer, Michael Goede, during the 1980's arranged to have former astronauts autograph picture cards for him with space-theme postmarks applied. But his were not in the large quantities as with Sieger (only a hundred or so for each that had participated).

In later years, space dealers like Galaxy, ADV Services, Novagraphics, SCCS, along with a few others were acquiring autograph deals and arrangements, both commercial and private.

Other astronauts that might be in the running, overall, could be Aldrin, Lovell, Bean, Duke, Mitchell, and maybe Cernan and Shepard, but though limited with Shepard than in comparison to others.

Did Glenn sign almost a million times? I don't know, but I am thinking well into the hundreds of thousands. But even such a large number as that seems almost impossible. If still with us, I wonder how the former senator would answer that question. I am sure he lost count a long time ago.

Steve Zarelli
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From: Upstate New York, USA
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 01-24-2017 06:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Steve Zarelli   Click Here to Email Steve Zarelli     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Dixon:
Is it possible that Aldrin might have overtaken Armstrong?
I would think so. Buzz has been signing commercially for 20+ years. Also, he was a generous mail signer for years, plus the many thousands he signed at events/tours while with NASA. And, he has cranked out signed books in high volume.

No shortage of Aldrin autographs in prime condition. Probably the highest of the moonwalkers with the exception of Mitchell, Bean and Duke.

Robert Pearlman
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From: Houston, TX
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posted 01-24-2017 06:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Dixon:
Is it possible that Aldrin might have overtaken Armstrong?
I would think Armstrong received more requests through the mail, but Aldrin embarked on multiple book tours, signing hundreds (if not thousands) of books at each stop, and in the late 1980s and 1990s, he signed hundreds (if not, at times, thousands) of free autographs at events for the National Space Society and other organizations.

I was with him when he signed 500 to 800 books in one sitting, and watched as hundreds lined up for his autograph at events like the annual Race for Space in Washington, DC.

Did Armstrong ever do the same? Just sit down and sign for hundreds of people at a public event in the 1970s or 1980s?

On review: As Steve said.

Steve Zarelli
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Posts: 731
From: Upstate New York, USA
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 01-24-2017 06:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Steve Zarelli   Click Here to Email Steve Zarelli     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
Did Armstrong ever do the same? Just sit down and sign for hundreds of people at a public event in the 1970s or 1980s?
I think there were probably many rubber chicken dinners on the world tour where Armstrong signed a few hundred a night. There is a video on YouTube that shows the crew getting mobbed at the dais. I imagine this likely went on into the 70s whenever he was a guest at some event.

I recall an article that indicated that Armstrong got a few hundred requests a week into his office, and he signed them all for the most part.

That said, I don't think it can hold up to the steady high volume Aldrin has produced over time.

Ken Havekotte
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From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
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posted 01-24-2017 07:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Maybe Aldrin has indeed "beat" Armstrong with autograph signings if you consider the Apollo 11 LMP's countless numbers of book signing tours, promotional visits, paid-for signings, space function events and dinners, all within the last three decades or so. After all, Aldrin was one of the first astronauts to venture out on his own as a public space awareness spokesman while Armstrong never did.

Mike Dixon
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From: Kew, Victoria, Australia
Registered: May 2003

posted 01-24-2017 07:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mike Dixon   Click Here to Email Mike Dixon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We're guessing here to an extent with numbers three and beyond, but with Steve's comment regarding Mitchell, Bean and Duke, I'm proud to say I have all their signatures. How John Glenn did that for free and especially for so long (as posted by Ken in his wonderful example) just staggers me.

To think I had to sign a hundred or so Christmas cards for a few years to airline clients filled me with dread as it was scrawl by number 20, yet this guy continued to do it for what seems an eternity.

John was a guest at my (Aussie rules) football club (Carlton) decades back and to this day, his signed letter thanking the club for their hospitality is still there in a prominent place. Many have been moved, his has not.

Steve Zarelli
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From: Upstate New York, USA
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 01-24-2017 07:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Steve Zarelli   Click Here to Email Steve Zarelli     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Fun topic. Just off the top of my head, here would be my guesstimate from the most common to least common among the moonwalkers. This is autographs in any form.

Feel free to debate. I could be way off on some. I was struggling with Conrad/Irwin and Shepard/Cernan.

  • 12 - Edgar Mitchell
  • 11 - Charlie Duke
  • 10 - Alan Bean
  • 9 - Buzz Aldrin
  • 8 - Neil Armstrong
  • 7 - Alan Shepard
  • 6 - Gene Cernan
  • 5 - Dave Scott
  • 4 - Jim Irwin
  • 3 - Charles Conrad
  • 2 - Harrison Schmitt
  • 1 - John Young

mjanovec
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Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005

posted 01-24-2017 07:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjanovec   Click Here to Email mjanovec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just for fun, I thought I would do a quick check of eBay at the moment to see how many signatures for each are being advertised. Using similar terms, I did a search for "John Glenn signed," "Neil Armstrong signed," etc. I didn't vet the listings to ensure that each lot was indeed an authentic signature, but just roughly compared the volumes for each search term.

While not the most scientific way of assessing overall supply, I think the results fall pretty much in line with what one might expect:

  • "John Glenn signed" = 559 items
  • "Alan Bean signed" = 285 items
  • "Buzz Aldrin signed" = 215 items
  • "Neil Armstrong Signed" = 109 items
  • "Fred Haise Signed" = 100 items
  • "Alan Shepard signed" = 94 items
  • "Gene Cernan signed" = 76 items
  • "Scott Carpenter signed" = 75 items
  • "Charlie Duke signed" = 74 items
  • "Edgar Mitchell signed" = 72 items
  • "Dave Scott signed" = 71 items
  • "Jim Lovell Signed" = 68 items
  • "Jim Irwin signed" = 66 items
  • "Wally Schirra signed" = 66 items
  • "Charles Conrad signed" = 54 items
  • "Deke Slayton signed" = 49 items
  • "Gordon Cooper signed" = 48 items
  • "Yuri Gagarin Signed" = 47 items
  • "John Young signed" = 33 items
  • "Harrison Schmitt signed" = 26 items
"John Young signed" actually had 309 hits, but most were not Young signatures, since the terms "John" and "Young" frequently appear in other listings. Dave Scott and Jim Irwin also varied, depending on whether you used "David" and "James" instead of their shortened names.

Maybe the only surprise here was Alan Bean having more hits than Aldrin, but in addition to signed photos there were also a lot of signed art prints for sale. That elevated his number somewhat. I also didn't expect Shepard to be quite that high on the list, but then again, Shepard probably had double or triple the number of autograph requests over his lifetime than his crewmate Mitchell had, being both the first American in space AND a moonwalker.

Again, these numbers are to be taken with a grain of salt. But I think they are generally indicative of what the proportions might be for each signature.

Hart Sastrowardoyo
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From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 01-24-2017 08:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hart Sastrowardoyo   Click Here to Email Hart Sastrowardoyo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What about Haise, who signed freely for years, through the mail and otherwise, and now recently started signing again (albeit for a fee)? I would think he would also be up there in numbers.

(Anecdotally, in 2003, Haise was at the Cradle of Aviation Museum, signing multiples for seemingly everybody. Staffer asked if he wanted to limit, and he said no.)

Steve Zarelli
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Posts: 731
From: Upstate New York, USA
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 01-24-2017 08:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Steve Zarelli   Click Here to Email Steve Zarelli     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mjanovec:
Just for fun, I thought I would do a quick check of eBay...
I was tempted to do the same thing!

Bear in mind that Cernan numbers are probably artificially inflated on eBay at this time due to his passing.

Mitchell and Duke are a bit puzzling, but otherwise the moonwalkers line up fairly well with my guesstimates.

mjanovec
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Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005

posted 01-24-2017 08:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjanovec   Click Here to Email mjanovec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I also thought that the recent passings of Cernan and Glenn could have increased their listings, but they pretty much fell in order with what I would have expected.

I think with Mitchell and Duke, they are well known to the seasoned collectors. But the average historical autograph collector (who doesn't necessarily specialize in space signatures) wants to concentrate on the more famous missions... Freedom 7, Friendship 7, Apollo 11, Apollo 13.

Nothing against those Mitchell or Duke, but I suspect their mail boxes were not as overflowing as Armstrong, Aldrin, Glenn, and Shepard's were over the decades. When the paid signings started to become the norm and guys like Duke and Mitchell (and Bean) were the more affordable moonwalker signatures, then I think that's when their numbers started to swell more. But really, I'm just guessing!

mjanovec
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Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005

posted 01-24-2017 08:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjanovec   Click Here to Email mjanovec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
One other oddity I just noticed is the that there are 215 items that match with "Buzz Aldrin signed" but there are 232 items that match with "Buzz Aldrin signed book." I'm not exactly sure how a more refined search term yields a higher number. But there do appear to indeed be well over 200 Aldrin signed books on eBay.

jtheoret
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From: Albuquerque, NM USA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 01-25-2017 09:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jtheoret   Click Here to Email jtheoret     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting topic! No doubt there are hundreds of thousands of examples of the regular signers' autographs out there. Just looking at Bean's art alone amounts to at least 20,000 signatures, and he's signed hundreds of photos for me alone over the years.

Wehaveliftoff
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posted 04-14-2017 05:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wehaveliftoff     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Clearly John Glenn signed more than all the others combined I'd say. No contest; more Buzz than Neil, and far more Bean than Buzz.

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