posted 06-05-2012 05:40 PM               

I know the drill when it comes to these events. Money buys access and more money buys more access. However, when it comes to kids who attend these events, the astronauts have always seemed very open to meeting, and taking pictures with, the kids without requiring monetary compensation for this privilege. The astronauts seem to relish these opportunities to interact with the astronauts of tomorrow. For the most part, these guys are American treasures. That's why the incident I am about to describe is so very disappointing.

The grandkids and I were in the astronaut autograph area. I had an item to show Dave Scott (Apollo 15) so the three of us approached him at his booth. I had previously talked to the kids about Scott so I know that the ten year old at least, was aware that he was a moonwalker. After speaking with Scott about my item, I asked him if he would take a picture with the grandkids. Scott advised 'No. No picture without an autograph purchase. After all, I have to take care of the Scott house.' I told him that I already had his autograph and I didn't need another one. So we walked away. Scott showed a complete lack of class. I have never seen any of the other astronauts refuse to take a picture with kids any where at any time before, during, or after the autograph portion of these types of events.

My grandchildren subsequently approached Aldrin at his autograph booth. Buzz could not have been nicer or more gracious about taking pictures with both kids and even throwing in a free t-shirt for each of them. Thanks Buzz! They will never forget that.

Bean and Haise were the same way at last years event when both of them graciously agreed to pose for photos with my granddaughter when we approached them in the hotel lobby.

Requiring payment of $200 in order to take a picture with a six and ten year old is disgraceful. It is beneath the dignity of the title 'astronaut'. There are some things in life that should be more important than money. One of them is your integrity as seen through the eyes of two impressionable kids who might have thought you almost walked on water because of your position. Way to inspire the youngsters! Make them think you are all about the money! You never come out looking good when you are mean to kids or dogs. Although I respect Scott for what he did as an astronaut, I have lost respect for him as a fellow human being. And his age is no excuse.

Being an astronaut is about so much more than making money. It is about decency, honesty, compassion, bravery, respect, and common sense. An astronaut should try to inspire today's youth to reach for the stars, not their wallets.

posted 06-05-2012 07:18 PM               

I'm happy they'll have pleasant memories of meeting Buzz. I'm sorry their encounter with Scott was so disappointing, but I hope they left the event excited about meeting the astronauts.

posted 06-06-2012 06:03 AM               

I guess business was down and he was trying to drum up some.

posted 06-06-2012 06:45 AM               

Another thing to consider is that we've become very spoiled with astronauts bending over backwards to accomodate our every wish. I was at a horror show in Dallas a month ago where most of the actors required an additional fee for photos. As far as I know, no astronaut has ever asked for or required such a fee until the Dave Scott incident. Personally, I hope it never gets to that point. I think the price we pay our astronaut heros for autographs is all-inclusive. Also, the astronauts are much older now than when they flew to the moon. I'm sure it's not easy for them to travel across the country (in Scott's case, halfway around the world) just to sign a few autographs for their adoring fans. It might be time for us to do some bending and accept them for who and what they are - humans with faults, just like the rest of us. It might also be time for them to offer autographs through the mail or on their websites.

posted 06-06-2012 10:41 AM               

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Originally posted by schnappsicle:
As far as I know, no astronaut has ever asked for or required such a fee until the Dave Scott incident.

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posted 06-06-2012 12:54 PM               

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Originally posted by garymilgrom:
I'll go further and defend Scott's actions. How many times has he been asked for a photo - 1,000, 10,000, 100,000 times?

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I talked briefly with Al Worden last fall at an event and he mentioned people using kids to get autographs in the past for adults who turned around and sold them. I replied that I knew a guy well-connected to the baseball greats and that was an issue there as well. Al said he'd heard that, too and that's probably why some charge a small fortune every time or don't sign at all anymore.

posted 06-06-2012 03:07 PM               

Also anyone who uses their kids as a front to dupe an astronaut into fulfilling a request is a lowlife. I am just your average collector. I do not resell. I collect items which will be passed on either to my heirs or maybe a museum somewhere if one is interested in what I have.

I refer to my original post because any astronaut who is going to charge a ten and six year old for a photo opp is a disgrace to his position. It is a shame that some of the astronauts have become so jaded that they would think that people who approach them with kids are out to scam some type of autograph or photo. This really only hurts the average collector like myself.

posted 06-06-2012 08:01 PM               

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Originally posted by p51:
The stories she told me about autograph seekers and people looking for photos totally changed my perspective on privacy in general.

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posted 06-07-2012 05:44 AM               

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Originally posted by mjanovec:
I respect his right to take photos with whom he chooses, though I feel it was a poor decision not to take a photo with those young children.

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Well said, Mark. It's his "right" but is surely lacking in empathy, or grace - especially if he's pleading penury. I also remember the "don't go behind the table" rule when taking photos at a previous show. Weird.

posted 06-07-2012 06:42 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by mjanovec:
Buzz had a similar photo fee at some of the ASF shows in the past. I believe it was in the $15-25 range (or free, with autograph purchase).

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I've never attended an ASF event, so I don't have any first hand knowledge of anything that happened there. However, my brother did attend one for me about 3 years ago. I sent him there to get a Lovell autograph. He lives just a few hours away from KSC. He was able to get plenty of pictures with Buzz Aldrin even though he never got an autograph from him.

posted 06-07-2012 01:21 PM               

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Originally posted by Tykeanaut:
If you cannot have the good grace to allow a free photograph, don't turn up.

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posted 06-07-2012 08:09 PM               

The bottom line is, for the most part what we admire about these folks are their accomplishments. When someone is as good as Charlie Duke about the interactions with fans and kids it just increases your admiration. They may act like jerks at times but I suspect I have a few shortcomings myself.

posted 06-07-2012 10:00 PM               

But it does seem to me that when they do come to a show, which people are spending a lot of money and sometimes coming from considerable distances to attend, that they should be willing to be courteous and friendly to those in attendance.

I think the folks at Spacefest are generally very courteous about not intruding on astronaut private time. For instance, last year Captain and Mrs. Lovell came down for coffee at Starbucks most mornings. People kept a respectful distance and didn't badger them at all that I saw (I wasn't there every minute, obviously). There is a kind of culture of expectation and general courtesy at a show.

posted 06-07-2012 10:02 PM               

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Originally posted by JasonB:
...maybe you should try and see things from their point of view.

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People have said that Mr. Armstrong is very generous to people when meeting them at events taking free pictures with them and sometimes free autographs. If you read "First Man" the authorized bio of Armstrong, you would understand why he is defended. He has always been shy and he really doesn't feel like autographs should be how he is remembered. He should be remembered as the first man on the moon and that should be carried on by him telling his stories to people.

posted 06-07-2012 10:43 PM               

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Originally posted by Mr. Apollo 17:
All I'm trying to say is that Armstrong is a very kind person and is generous to people personally because he is shy in front of crowds. Scott just cares about money and it seems like he does not have a heart...

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I've been at events where Armstrong has turned away having his picture taken and I've been at events where Scott has freely interacted with his audience. So what does that mean?

Trying to assign motive to either individual's actions because of something you read in a book or have been told is true is a sure fire way of mischaracterizing the person and situation.

posted 06-07-2012 11:20 PM               

Although they are put on pedestals and revered by many, at the end of the day these men are exactly that. Men. They aren't perfect and they have inconsistencies in personality and mood as we all do every once in a while.

posted 06-08-2012 07:12 AM               

I just attended Dave Scott's lecture a few weeks ago in Ohio and he came across as friendly and engaging in the talk. He even answered audience questions for about half an hour. They had signs posted saying no photos or autographs would be given (it didn't stop people from bumrushing the stage when he got done talking).

I would have loved to get my photo with him or an autograph but me wanting something, and me expecting it are two totally different things. Just because you want something (for free by the way), doesn't mean you should always get it.

I wish Armstrong would sign all my stuff, but it doesn't mean that I think he "owes it to me" or that he has to and is a jerk if he doesn't. I can even totally disagree (which I do) with his autograph policy but that doesn't mean he's a jerk. It just means he made a decision I don't agree with.

These guys face the same problem all the time. If they sign for 20 people, they are (supposedly) a jerk if they don't sign for the 21st. Everyone wants something from them ALL THE TIME. At least Scott makes himself available. If you want a photo pay the $200 and get an autograph with it. If someone complained about this at a sports show, everyone would look at them like they were mentally handicapped, yet the astronauts are expected to do it all the time.

posted 06-08-2012 07:39 AM               

I was crushed, and wrote this player a letter expressing my disappointment. He wrote me back about a week later, a brief note about ten times more polite than I deserved. There had been an illness in his family (in fact, said relative had died less than a week after my encounter with him) and that had weighed on his mind. He said something like, "I hope you will understand that even those of us in the public eye have these kinds of circumstances in our lives," or something like that. Coupled with what I later found out about this player, that he's very famously shy and reserved and that his minimal interaction is a way he copes with these kinds of things, I really felt like a world-class schmuck. (I still have the letter he wrote me, not for its collector's value but because it's always there to keep me humble.) That experience as much as anything is why, aside from the stray event every now and again, most all autographs I have acquired since were signed books bought through arranged signings or from the secondary market.

I'm not defending what Scott did - as I said earlier, to me it speaks for itself and I'll leave it at that - but I bring that story up to make the point that although they may have traveled in space and dealt with the spotlight, they have good moments and bad moments same as all of us. It was a lesson I learned the hard way. (There's also the conundrum about meeting your heroes...do you want to actually do it, or do you fear having the heroic image shattered?)

posted 06-08-2012 08:21 AM               

There are a lot of different shows/events with a lot of different cultures. There is Autographica, with fees for everything, including photos. There is something like the Scott appearance in Dayton with no photos/autographs. There is ASF, no autographs but plenty of photo ops.

I went to an event at the Comosphere recently where there was a professional photographer at the reception after the event, and they took pictures; two 5x7s with us and the astronauts were included in the price of the reception.

posted 06-08-2012 12:23 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by schnappsicle:
I I was at a horror show in Dallas a month ago where most of the actors required an additional fee for photos.

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I was at a sci-fi signing where one person charged a fee to take their picture - whether or not you were in the picture. It's one of the reasons I got out of ST collecting.

posted 06-08-2012 01:11 PM               

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Originally posted by Fra Mauro:
It's not like Scott was asked to take a photo while he was eating dinner with his family. Like with athletes, astronauts should be glad people still remember them.

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posted 06-08-2012 01:33 PM               

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Originally posted by JasonB:
It's strange because I know that if you substituted Armstrong's name for Scott in the same situation, everyone would be defending his right to not pose for a photo.

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Problem is, Scott didn't refuse to take the photo. He required $200 to take the photo. There's a difference. Armstrong has never asked a fee to take a photo with someone that I'm aware of.

Also, if Scott didn't want to take the photo, a simple refusal like "Thank you for your interest, but I prefer not to take photos without an autograph purchase" would have been preferable to the admonition that he needs to "take care of the Scott house." I think it's safe to say that everyone at the show has to provide food for their families, but that doesn't stop most people from being kind and accomodating to each other.

posted 06-08-2012 01:54 PM               

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Originally posted by scrpien:
Scott advised 'No. No picture without an autograph purchase."

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