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Author Topic:   Autographs of the first 10 supersonic pilots
Bob M
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Posts: 1744
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 08-25-2010 02:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bob M   Click Here to Email Bob M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Probably there are few of us astronaut and test pilot autograph collectors who don't know who was the first pilot to (officially) break the sound barrier, and very few who don't have his autograph. But chances are that there are very few who know who the second pilot was after Chuck Yeager to break the sound barrier - and almost certainly none have his autograph.

USAF Capt. James T. Fitzgerald, Jr., was the second test pilot to fly the Bell X-1 at supersonic speeds. This occurred on February 24, 1948, and Capt. Fitzgerald died less than 7 months later. Almost certainly no collector-type autograph material exists signed by Capt. Fitzgerald and the only possible sources for his signature would be official records and family records. So it's very unlikely that any present-day collector has anything signed by the second pilot to break the sound barrier.

And in my opinion, it's also very possible that no present-day collector has autographs of more than even four or five of the first ten supersonic pilots.

This is being said because five of the ten died shortly after their supersonic flights (Fitzgerald and Howard Lilly both in 1948 and the other three in the early 1950's). And the tenth pilot to break the sound barrier was a Soviet Air Force test pilot, I.E. Fedorov, and little seems to be known about him and any autograph material he may have left behind.

So, assembling a complete collection of autographs of the 1st ten supersonic pilots is very close to impossible. It and a somewhat similar collection of autographs of the 18 Bell X-1 pilots (19 counting Fred Ascani, whose lone flight is not in official records) is likewise not considered possible, although surely many collectors have 7-12 of the 18-19 autographs required.

So while it's very possible to have complete autograph collections of the twelve X-15 pilots, and the 12 moonwalkers, and even the 43 flown Mercury, Gemini, Apollo astronauts, complete collections of the ten supersonic test pilots and, likewise, the 18-19 X-1 pilots, appears to be no more than a dream for collectors.

Who were these first ten supersonic pilots?

  • Charles "Chuck" Yeager, USAF
  • James T. Fitzgerald, Jr., USAF
  • Herbert H. Hoover, NACA
  • Howard C. Lilly, NACA
  • George Welch, NAA
  • Gustav "Gus" Lundquist, USAF
  • John Derry, de Havilland, UK
  • Eugene F. May, Douglas Aircraft
  • Robert A. Champine, NACA
  • I.E. Fedorov, Soviet Air Force
Like more autograph challenges? Try to find something signed by Capt. Iven C. Kincheloe, Jr., the 1st pilot to exceed 100,000 feet in altitude and be called at that time, "The First Spaceman," and Milburn "Mel" Apt, the first pilot to fly at three times the speed of sound (Mach 3), and perish on that flight - his first and only X-2 rocket plane flight.

Corrections and further info would be welcome.

MarylandSpace
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posted 08-25-2010 02:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MarylandSpace   Click Here to Email MarylandSpace     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting thread Bob.

Just another reason I so enjoy reading collectSPACE every day.

albatron
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From: Stuart, Florida
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 08-25-2010 03:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for albatron   Click Here to Email albatron     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bob - you've brought up a very intriguing subject. I agree, this may be the hardest "set" to collect. I've personally not ever seen a Fitzgerald autograph, or a Herb Hoover or Howard "Tick" Lilly, the first two civilians to go supersonic.

Or heck, a Wheaties Welch, Derry or Fedorov.

I do have a couple of pieces of aerospace firsts, that contains the first mach 1 (yeager), first mach 2 and 3 (to survive - Crossfield), firstst mach 4, 5, 6 (White) and others.

machbusterman
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Posts: 1778
From: Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland
Registered: May 2004

posted 08-25-2010 03:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for machbusterman   Click Here to Email machbusterman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
An intersting thread Bob!

Of the 19 (1st generation) X-1 pilots I am missing signatures from the following:

  • Jack Woolams
  • Herbert Hoover
  • Howard Lilly
  • James Fitzgerald
  • Patrick Fleming
Ascani's flight in the X-1 was documented in his authorised biography "Mentor Inbound" and I have a copy of his Form 5 (pilots logbook) showing the date he flew the X-1 (May 10th, 1950).

poofacio
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Posts: 268
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2006

posted 08-25-2010 04:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for poofacio   Click Here to Email poofacio     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have an Ivan Kinchloe signed flown cover. (It has been consigned to RR and should appear in an auction around Christmas.)

Bob M
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Posts: 1744
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 08-27-2010 09:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bob M   Click Here to Email Bob M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm far from an authority on the early test pilots and had to do a lot of research in preparing my post on the 1st ten supersonic test pilots. It's a unique group of test pilots and along with the Bell X-1 pilots, it's a very special group of early jet-age and rocket plane pilots.

My test pilot and test aircraft collecting is limited to non-military test flight programs and my interest is primarily the Bell X-1, the X-15 rocket plane and the NASA Lifting Body aircraft. Others, such as Al Hallonquist and Derek Horne, have exceptional collections and Websites devoted to most of the test aircraft programs and pilots.

I happened upon an excellent website and it was there that I found the listing of the 1st ten supersonic test pilots and that's where the idea for my post came from. The link to it is above and I highly recommend it to anyone with interest in early test aircraft history and to learn a little about these ten (actually 11) extraordinary men, but, sadly, in most cases, whose lives were cut short. And, sadly also, is that so many of them are obscure and their accomplishments little known.

Dirk
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From: Belgium
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 08-27-2010 04:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dirk   Click Here to Email Dirk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would also add German ME262 pilot Guido Mutke. I refer to an article in "Fliegermagazin 4/2002". In which Mutke also claimed to have been flown Mach 1.

mjanovec
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Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005

posted 08-27-2010 10:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjanovec   Click Here to Email mjanovec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's a very interesting topic, Bob, as the thought of trying to collect the autographs of the first 10 supersonic pilots never occurred to me previously...even though I collect test pilot signatures (including several of the X-1 pilots). While I always knew these guys were in a dangerous profession, listing the first 10 supersonic pilots (and considering the fates of at least 50% of them), really gives a perspective of just how dangerous it could be.

I would be curious to see other "first 10" lists with regards to test flying...such as the first 10 to exceed 100,000 feet in altitude. You already listed Kincheloe. I wonder who the other nine are...and what happened to them.

machbusterman
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Posts: 1778
From: Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland
Registered: May 2004

posted 08-29-2010 10:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for machbusterman   Click Here to Email machbusterman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dirk, I believe Mutke didn't exceed mach 1. When the US Army Air Corps tested the ME-262 (and the RAF) they found it would go divergent above 0.86 mach. This is also the limit that Messerschmitt imposed on the aircraft in testing and operational use. I have spoken with one of the USAF pilots and in his own words "The wings would come off long before you reached Mach 1 in that bird".

Bob M
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Posts: 1744
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 09-02-2010 07:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bob M   Click Here to Email Bob M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mjanovec:
I would be curious to see other "first 10" lists with regards to test flying... such as the first 10 to exceed 100,000 feet in altitude. You already listed Kincheloe. I wonder who the other nine are... and what happened to them.
While it appears that it would be almost impossible to assemble a complete autograph collection of the first ten supersonic pilots, as we've discussed, Mark's question of who were the first ten pilots to exceed 100,000 feet in altitude got me wondering about who they were and if acquiring all their autographs might be possible.

Again, my knowledge of the early test pilots is not the best, but after some research, I came up with the following list and, except for the rarity of Iven Kincheloe's autograph, the first pilot to exceed 100,000 feet, it appears that this is a collection that could be completed.

These are the pilots, in order, that reached 100,000+ feet in altitude:

  • Iven Kincheloe, Bell X-2 (1956)
  • Bob White, X-15 (1960)
  • Joe Walker, X-15 (1961)
  • Forrest Peterson, X-15
  • Neil Armstrong, X-15 (1962)
  • Robert Rushworth, X-15
  • Jack McKay, X-15
  • Joe Engle, X-15 (1964)
  • Milt Thompson, X-15 (1965)
  • Pete Knight, X-15 (1966)
Of note, Bob White was the first pilot to exceed both 200,000 feet (1961) and 300,000 feet (1962).

And also of note, Iven Kincheloe was originally the USAF's chief X-15 pilot and one of the first three pilots selected in the X-15 Program, and Bob White was his back-up. Had Kincheloe lived, he would have certainly flown the X-15 many times and possibly achieved many of the record flights that his back-up, Bob White, did. Kincheloe was tragically killed in an F-104 crash in 1958, before he had a chance to fly the X-15.

hinkler
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Posts: 573
From: Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 09-22-2015 04:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hinkler   Click Here to Email hinkler     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was lucky enough to find this bank check (cheque) signed by George "Wheaties" Welch. Surprising how difficult it is to find anything signed by him given how many autographs he probably signed during his war bond tours after Pearl Harbor and during his time as a test pilot.

Does anyone have a Ken Taylor signature to go with the Welch signature?

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