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  Is space autograph collecting in decline?

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Author Topic:   Is space autograph collecting in decline?
Bob M
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From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
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posted 01-15-2023 12:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bob M   Click Here to Email Bob M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Some indications show that space autograph collecting is in decline and has been for some time. There are many reasons, certainly including inflated prices and forgeries, but not the least of which is the commercialization of astronaut autographs, and from many outlets, such as eBay, major auction houses and dealers. These outlets offer their merchandize publically for all to see, including the astronauts who in many cases provided their autographs to those who they believed were serious collectors. Certainly many of these "collectors" are actually wolves in sheep's clothing.

Other factors include the more recent astronauts who decline to provide their autographs, especially through the mail, and when some do sign, the quality of their autographs are poor and in many cases little more than scribbles. These factors result in autograph frustration and discouragement.

Many collectors assembled their collections with through the mail requests - such as to NASA/JSC - but it appears that this approach has resulted in little success for some time. Another negative factor is that astronaut in-person appearances are much rarer now and that, coupled with through the mail disappointments, leave few opportunities for collectors to acquire astronaut autographs other than by purchase.

It seems that a number of previously popular ways to collect astronaut and cosmonaut autographs have significantly decreased, such as:

The excellent book, "Space Shuttle, the First 20 Years", was a popular vehicle to be autographed, with Shuttle astronauts signing inside with their pictures and Shuttle experiences. Another popular way was acquiring space travelers' autographs mostly in-person in the great book: "Who's Who in Space." One enthusiastic collector obtained autographs, mostly in person, of over 500 space travelers in his well-traveled WWiS book. Many others reached 200 or more autographs in their books.

Another extreme collector concentrated on autographs of everyone who underwent official government spaceflight training, whether or not they ever flew, and reportedly at one time had autographs of the large majority of them all.

Others made it a little easier on themselves and concentrated on signed portraits of the NASA and flown astronauts; flown Mercury, Gemini and Apollo astronauts; flown Shuttle astronauts; all space travelers; the Apollo astronauts; etc. Of course, completeness or near-completeness in any of these categories is difficult, but that didn't stop many from trying, including me, but changing circumstances have stopped me now.

So it seems that space autograph interest, even enthusiasm, has greatly diminished and probably much of the fine autograph material that has been acquired in the past has been put away, but hopefully still enjoyed at times and the pursuit and acquisition of it all has left many pleasant memories - I have quite a few.

Grounded!
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From: Bennington, Vermont, USA
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posted 01-15-2023 06:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Grounded!   Click Here to Email Grounded!     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My collecting has dropped off considerably, but not for a lack of enthusiasm. Opportunities to meet and get autographs and photos of my childhood heroes has all but dried up.

The earlier Spacefest events and others like it have left me with memories and stories enough to last a lifetime.

MarylandSpace
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posted 01-15-2023 07:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MarylandSpace   Click Here to Email MarylandSpace     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My favorite collection mode is with the book, "Space Shuttle, the First 20 Years." I have shuttle astronauts sign their photo, their essay, or the photo of "their" shuttle. I ask them to sign "their page" which brings back memories and a story from them. This brings a smile to both of our faces.

I have about 150 shuttle astronaut autographs and some later astronaut who flew to the ISS only.

There are fewer and fewer autograph opportunities and/astronaut appearances and talks.

One shuttle astronaut at an event last year told me "It is NASA policy for us NOT to autographs at an event, but for you to send photos/books to JSC." I cringed as a fellow collector/enthusiast told me there is no such policy.

I would not dare send my book to JSC for fear of loss in transit. It could never be replace. I plan to pass it to my Grandson.

Nearly all of my autographs were politely obtained in person. I once sent my book to Colorado and once to Massachusetts.

ea757grrl
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posted 01-15-2023 07:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ea757grrl   Click Here to Email ea757grrl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I used to go to shows (sports, not space) and get autographs from retired players who were signing things, but I had an experience that made me reconsider the whole thing about getting autographs, and a couple other things I saw bothered me, and I got out of it. I never went to any space shows, though I have been to some events where astronauts were in attendance, and although it would have been easy to ask them to autograph something for me and they probably would have done so, it wouldn't have felt right and I was content to not bother them.

I've occasionally bought existing autographed items through mail order, and I love coming across signed books, but that's about it. If I meet anyone I admire in any field, I'm perfectly happy with a handshake!

sts205cdr
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posted 01-15-2023 09:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sts205cdr   Click Here to Email sts205cdr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For the most part, I have sent astronauts a photo of myself standing next to them (in person, SpaceFest, etc.). Return supplies and postage, of course. It helps, but current astronauts? Maybe.

Rick Mulheirn
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posted 01-16-2023 05:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick Mulheirn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think it is largely a generational thing. The majority of our heroes from the pioneering days have left us. And the generation that venerated those heroes are not far behind. Eventually we will all be gone and with it the passion associated with the pre shuttle era.

Space flight is becoming increasingly commonplace and for the masses…. mundane. Astronaut signatures from the 60s and 70s will always in my opinion have value but with time that value will inevitably fall.

MCroft04
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posted 01-16-2023 07:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MCroft04   Click Here to Email MCroft04     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Certainly the absence of ASF and Spacefest autograph events has put a damper on collecting autographs.

I often look through my autographed astronaut photos and enjoy the memories. For me getting an autographs was not the appeal — but it allowed me to get at least a few minutes of questions, and often a lot more time. And pictures too.

Fortunately I took detailed notes at every event that I attended, and there are some very good stories in them. One day I hope to put them into some kind of a narrative.

alanh_7
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From: Ajax, Ontario, Canada
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posted 01-16-2023 09:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for alanh_7   Click Here to Email alanh_7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with Mel on this. I have a few of my autographed photos framed. Most of my collection is artwork stored in portfolios. Very few autographs have been from third parties.

More than anything, I look at each autograph and remember the opportunity offered to meet and speak to the astronauts at ASF events attended. Since the scale back of ASF autograph shows, my collecting as dropped off considerably.

kosmo
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posted 01-16-2023 09:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kosmo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with Rick, that it's mostly generational. I set out in around 1999 to meet all the surviving astronauts from the Mercury, Gemini and Apollo programs, introduce myself, shake their hand, and get a photograph with them. I accomplished that in 2016 and feel very fortunate. Those photos and memories are priceless.

When possible, I did get an autograph on a NASA photo, while neat, the autographs just don’t mean that much. That in itself may say where the hobby is going.

Ken Havekotte
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posted 01-16-2023 11:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Astronaut/Space autograph collecting may be declining in some areas with lack of conventions, public show appearances, book signings, and other in-person opportunities.

In operating my own space business firm that handles and sells astronaut signed material with no website nor space store, I'm really not seeing such a decline. I'm doing well, overall, with available signatures at limited space shows of mine and in filling email "want list" requests.

While the prices for some material may be down somewhat in today's market, just about all of the "high-end" pieces continue to go well in my opinion. Much of the vintage Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo signed material continues to be popular, however, more-so common and past-frequent signing astronauts like Scott Carpenter, Wally Schirra, Gordon Cooper, Dick Gordon, Walt Cunningham, and even moonwalkers Pete Conrad and Ed Mitchell for some reason rarely go high. Now with all of those mentioned Apollo space flyers no longer with us, we'll see if interest/prices picks up a little with some of them.

p51
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posted 01-16-2023 11:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for p51   Click Here to Email p51     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think younger people today want to prove they were there. Selfies and such prove this, and I think it means more to prove you met said person as opposed to having an autograph that you might have gotten or you bought from someone else.

I can understand that, as it'd meant more to have a photo of me WITH Neil Armstrong than an autograph someone else got years before, had I ever gotten to meet the man.

Then there's the issue of fakes. I don't need to expand on that.

I've only ever paid for ONE autograph, for Al Bean (as I'd just had a conversation with him before that). I got one for John Glenn as it was easy to send a photo and get it back. The rest are from people I've met in person and many of those are personalized. I don't have a great deal of them but the ones I have, those mean something to me.

I also have some signed books, but in each of those cases those are books I wanted regardless. If I meet an astronaut and I have a book they wrote, I'll ask for signature.

Two that meant much were Story's book on T38s and Mullane's "Riding Rockets" because it's my favorite first-person book ever.

But in the end I don't actively pursue or collect autographs. While I don't poo-poo those who live for them, it's not the focus of my life...

Bob M
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posted 01-16-2023 01:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bob M   Click Here to Email Bob M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As a very long-time space fan and space/astronaut autograph collector, I started this thread because of how much space autograph collecting has changed for me, and I know for others, too, and was interested in some other opinions/experiences, which has interestingly occurred.

The Mercury, Gemini, Apollo and most of the Shuttle astronauts have generally autographed enough material for collectors' consumption for many years to come. And as Ken has stated, much of it sells and sells well and will continue to. But this is autograph material signed in the past (The last thing, for example, that Alan Shepard signed was in 1998 and Jim Irwin in 1991. Their autographs and so many others can be easily found and will only require some level of expense).

But I believe many collectors are more concerned and unhappy with the current state of astronaut signing — or the lack of. The last two to three NASA Astronaut classes were not receptive to autograph requests and anyone wanting their autographs — many have already flown — will have to prowl eBay in hope of purchasing their autographs, and also will have poor or no luck acquiring their autographs via mail-in requests to NASA/JSC, the long-time Code CB route. Much of my autograph collection resulted from the "CB" (Astronaut Office) approach — but no more.

Ken Havekotte
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posted 01-16-2023 02:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Definitely, as Bob pointed out, there was been a drastic change with autograph seekers trying to pursue for their SpaceX/Boeing/NASA collections current astronaut signed photos and postal covers. I have not seen nor heard of any covers or photos signed by the recent Crew Dragon, NASA, pre-Starliner, and Orion crews since 2020, even from those that served as part of the launch and mission teams. I am sure a few must be out there...anyone?

That's why I don't think writing to an astronaut(s) for even a sincere signature space fan request at JSC would be successful these days. But I guess it doesn't hurt to try since NASA has never, to my understanding, stated otherwise in not having active astronauts receive fan mail at the Houston space center using Code CB.

During the shuttle program years, I was told that one astronaut, as told by two sources, simply would trash any autograph-seeking requests mailed to his astronaut office. Of course, though, most shuttle astronauts did respond favorably all throughout those shuttle-flying years. It's really up to the individual astronaut, which has always been the case beforehand, but I don't think we're seeing any positive fan mail replies thus far. Does NASA no longer encourage fan mail
of this type?

CEKebalo
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From: Winnipeg, MB, CA
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posted 01-16-2023 04:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for CEKebalo   Click Here to Email CEKebalo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think this depends on whether one has a collection as an investment, as an investment and a hobby, or entirely for personal enjoyment and memories.

I feel autographs, regardless of the industry or community (space, sports, Hollywood etc) are well suited for certain generations or decades in time. Rick mentioned below, "it's largely a generational thing" and I would agree. The ability to document a moment that one had in connecting with someone they admired, was limited in the past. An autograph, whether in person or through the mail, was an excellent way to do this with Apollo astronauts and those prior.

Present, for those who enjoy collecting space items, an autograph may not be personal enough to have meaning to them going forward, unless obtained in person. When even then, I can also say, I'd rather have a picture on my wall of a meeting to remember, than an autographed photo without a story behind it. However for certain people we admire(d), an autographed item is now our only path to that connection we seek.

My father has been a fan of Don Cherry (NHL figure) his entire life. For his 75th birthday, I was able to find a way to connect with Don Cherry and have him send a personalized birthday card and a picture of him signing and holding this card, to my father. For my Dad, he would have been happy if all Don did was print "From Don" ... the autograph itself doesn't hold the power, it's the direct connection made and the photo that he treasures.

In the end autographs will always hold a certain place in collections and as investments, you can't sell a photo, so an autograph will always have a place. There may also be a lull in the industry currently, until Artemis eventually lands us back on the Moon.

SkyMan1958
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posted 01-16-2023 04:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SkyMan1958   Click Here to Email SkyMan1958     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If signature collecting is in decline, you sure don't see it in what is being offered for auction by the major auction houses, such as Heritage, RR etc., much less by the smaller space auction businesses.

It seems to me that most of the lots are signed pictures or books, as opposed to flown or unflown artifacts, or other items that have some sort of a space link.

Clearly these major auction houses wouldn't be selling these signed items if there wasn't a significant interest in collecting them.

Joel Katzowitz
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posted 01-17-2023 06:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Joel Katzowitz   Click Here to Email Joel Katzowitz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with Bob's sentiments but I'm not sure why I feel this way about collecting. Most of the previous posts make good points but, in my case, it feels more generational than anything else.

p51 made a point that really resonated with me. His comment about "younger people today want to prove they were there." I view that motivation as a negative.

As an example, I visited the Museum of Modern Art in New York City a few months ago. I've been there a number of times and while I was there I walked into a gallery that had a huge crowd of "younger people" with mobile phones in hand. I wondered what they were all looking at. As I got closer I saw Van Gogh's Starry Night masterpiece hanging on the wall. I love that painting and patiently waited so I could move closer to the canvas so I could see the brush strokes, the color palette, the thick applications of paint, etc.

To me that is the most important experience of seeing the work in person. To the rest of the crowd there that day, the experience was all about taking a quick selfie and moving on. I found that rather sad.

MartinAir
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posted 01-17-2023 09:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MartinAir   Click Here to Email MartinAir     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In my opinion, it's all about catching the (collecting) bug. I'm a younger generation and last time I was in a museum, I stared at the Apollo 11 Goodwill Moon Rock display for +/- thirty minutes...

Bob M
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posted 01-17-2023 10:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bob M   Click Here to Email Bob M     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It is gratifying to see the very active selling and buying of astronaut autograph material in the big auction houses, such as Heritage and RR, plus good activity on eBay; space autograph collecting in some ways is prospering.

Much of the "prospering" is the selling and reselling of the vast quantity of autograph material from an earlier era when astronauts freely signed and generally were receptive to autograph requests. It is said that NASA even encouraged autograph cooperation from their astronauts — one example: John GLenn signed freely, and free, for 40 years.

All the astronaut autograph material in existence and being sold and resold will provide seller and buyer much satisfaction for years to come and allow anyone to acquire just about whatever is desired, with few exceptions (sadly, forgeries will fill the void in many occasions).

Moon landing Phase One (Apollo) is over and Phase Two (Artemis) is underway and *if* all goes well a number of current astronauts will orbit the moon and some will walk on it. (The astronaut [woman?] who will be moonwalker number thirteen is almost certainly now training at JSC.)

While Apollo astronaut autographs are plentiful, where will autographs of the Artemis lunar astronauts and moonwalkers come from? Surely not now from the shallow pool of autographs from the current astronauts, who have not been especially autograph friendly. Also their public appearances are rare, which were somewhat common in the shuttle era.

Things change, but the current state of astronaut autograph commercialization will continue to be a negative factor.

So, the state of buying and selling of autographs from the Apollo era and before is healthy, but the many of us who wish to continue our collections with the contemporary astronauts are involved in an autograph drought and feel like we're involved in a declining and discouraging pursuit, a pursuit which many of us have been active in for many years.

For one, I have all the Mercury, Gemini, Apollo and Shuttle autographs I really need, but would like to continue with autographs of those who are going to fly to the moon again.

p51
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posted 01-17-2023 11:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for p51   Click Here to Email p51     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Joel Katzowitz:
To the rest of the crowd there that day, the experience was all about taking a quick selfie and moving on.
There's nothing new there. The only difference is that everyone carries a camera on them these days.

I was at the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam, marveling at many treasures of art, in 1988. I, too, was marveling at the paint strokes and pencil marks on old masters. For many others, they were just there to say they'd seen it, look quickly, then move on without really taking it in. The same thing happened as I tried to get a good view of the Pieta at the Vatican in 2018. So many were standing there not really appreciating one of the greatest works of sculpture ever created. That said, after that lunatic attacked it several years ago, it's well behind glass.

The only difference between my experiences and yours was in your case, it was about the selfie.

machbusterman
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From: Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland
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posted 01-19-2023 03:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for machbusterman   Click Here to Email machbusterman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Definitely in decline sadly. We’ve also lost a number of high profile collectors in recent years which has resulted in fewer bidders and prices not reaching the levels they used to at auction. Flown material still seems quite buoyant however.

I no longer collect autographed lithos, photos and covers. For me now, the treasured memories of encounters with the astronauts and my collection of artefacts gives me more pleasure than the autographed material.

I’m hoping to sell the majority of my collection to help fund some travel plans for my wife and I over the next few years

gareth89
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posted 01-19-2023 05:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for gareth89   Click Here to Email gareth89     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've been collecting about 15 years now since I was a teenager. It started with writing to my heroes and then making every effort to meet them, and like most of us the memories of my encounters with them are far more precious than the pieces of memorabilia on my wall.

I'm not sure if collecting is in decline, though I've found it more difficult to obtain autographed items recently due to the lack of signings, shows, and the exorbitant prices in auctions for commonplace items. I've had a couple of Anders signed items pass through my hands over the years that I had picked up in the low hundreds but haven't seen anything show up for less than a thousand in quite some time. I wish I held onto the last one!

I've only ever sold anything in order to buy the next item or to pay for a signing etc, only once did I sell three items at auction for profit, and I was lucky enough to get a small deposit for a house from the sale. I felt it was better to sell three items that were in a box in the corner of my parents house (that I was living in) in order to buy a home that I now have a (small) dedicated space room in!

I'd love to see more signings from shuttle astronauts and I'd love for my children to be able to write to the astronaut corps but it does feel like those days are over/ending. I've had many great successes through the mail and many more far greater successes in the conversations and memories with the pioneers of space, and I hope I have a few more surprises in my collecting future to come.

Larry McGlynn
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posted 01-19-2023 08:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Larry McGlynn   Click Here to Email Larry McGlynn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is part of an email that arrived today from Guillaume Cerutti the CEO of Christie's. Seems that 2022 was very good for auction sales, but the best part to me is the number of new and millennial bidders in the market. Now that is good news and goes against all the people who say the millennials are not interested in collecting.
As we begin 2023, I would like to share with you a quick look back over the last year and a few thoughts for the months ahead.

2022 was an historic year for Christie’s.

We achieved our highest ever global sales of $8.4Bn, with several landmarks, in particular the memorable sales of the Paul G. Allen Collection and Andy Warhol’s Shot Sage Blue Marilyn, the most valuable 20th-century artwork ever sold at auction. Our business grew in every category and in every region.

We are also thrilled to be welcoming new buyers into the market, with 35% of all buyers in 2022 being new to Christie's, and a third of them being millennials.

I would like to thank every one of our clients in 2022. Thank you for trusting us with your consignments and thank you for purchasing with us.

I agree that autograph prices have gone up and most of the astronauts we wanted to collect have passed or don't want to sign due to age and effort. As for me, I left autograph collecting years ago due to the problem with dealing with forgeries and the subjective nature of the hobby's grading expertise. It came to a head when it turned out that my three Armstrong signatures I purchased through dealers were declared forgeries years later. So for me, it was not about the lack of astronauts and their signing habits it became just a matter of the vagaries inherent in collecting autographs.

That said, I think astronaut autographs will become popular again when there are explorers on the Moon again or Mars in the future as most hobbies are cyclical in nature.

Hart Sastrowardoyo
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From: Toms River, NJ
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posted 02-06-2023 04:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hart Sastrowardoyo   Click Here to Email Hart Sastrowardoyo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gareth89:
I'm not sure if collecting is in decline, though I've found it more difficult to obtain autographed items recently due to the lack of signings, shows, and the exorbitant prices in auctions for commonplace items.
Even before COVID, the number of appearances seemed to be in decline (and I don't think it has to do with the declining number of astronauts I haven't seen nor my responsibilities increasing). The last two appearances I've made were book signings; hopefully with more astronauts writing books, that'll change!

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