posted 03-25-2012 11:12 AM               

The basic route we have planned is Orlando - New Orleans - Houston - Los Alamos - Las Vegas - Los Angeles - San Francisco. We'll be on the road for just under five weeks.

Two obvious destinations are Kennedy Space Center - we're planning to allocate two days for that, and the Level 9 Tour at Space Center Houston. Edwards AFB is also firmly on the list. In a more astronomical vein, the Very Large Array and Mount Wilson are looking good, and maybe some star gazing in the desert somewhere. We'd also like to get in one or two Manhattan-era locations - like the Los Alamos Historical Museum.

Originally we had planned to visit Huntsville too, but we're currently thinking that the hefty detour may not be worth it since we'll get to see the Saturn V at KSC and Houston as well. Input on that is most welcome - is the Space and Rocket Center worth it? With access to the Redstone Arsenal I would be more tempted since there are apparently some Apollo-era test stands to see there, but without a sponsoring employee that seems like a no-go.

Other destinations we are considering are the Infinity Science Center at Stennis which should open pretty much exactly when we pass by, the New Mexico Museum of Space History, and JPL's Visitor Day Tour.

Besides museums and visitor's centers, it would be great to see some other space-related sites of historical (or current!) significance - restaurants, motels, whatever. For example, I've seen posts here about the Mousetrap in Cocoa Beach, and what used to be The Singin' Wheel in Houston.

posted 03-25-2012 05:03 PM               

As for Huntsville, personally I think the U.S. Space & Rocket Center is worth it since it does have a unique collection of stuff and a nice charm all its own (and it has a standing Saturn V replica to help you appreciate how tall the stack is and currently the only shuttle stack on display with Pathfinder). But admittedly you will be seeing a lot of rockets at KSC as well and as you say, you can't get onto Marshall Space Flight Center grounds without a sponsor (and given that you are a foreigner, that might be tougher to swing).

Here are some options worth considering though for either route.

• National Naval Aviation Museum, Pensecola, FL If you love aircraft and space, this is probably a must visit if you wish to indeed stay on I-10. The aircraft collection here rivals the National Air and Space Museum and it is all Navy.

  I don't recall if the place has the spacecraft it used to as I believe both Freedom 7 and Apollo 14 got moved out, but they still have a space exhibit there and some other artifacts (and full size replicas of both capsules on display).

  Considering a large portion of the astronaut corps is Navy, this might be worth a stop. Plus, Florida is a long state to drive across. If you really are planning to drive from Titusville to New Orleans, this will make a good break.

• Patricia Huffman Remembering Columbia Museum, Hemphill, TX This one is a rather small museum compared to the biggies, but it is worth a visit, in my opninion. Hemphill became the center of attention when Columbia broke apart on STS-107 and the museum is a nice memorial that tells the story and spirit of Columbia from before, during and after that fateful day in 2003.

  There really isn't much in the way of hardware there, but there are items donated by the families and it is a tastefully done display. Plus, while other museums fight over who gets an orbiter for their display, Hemphill in a sense got Columbia, or at least the spirit of Columbia. Plus, a visit there gives you a VERY good sense of just how difficult that recovery was since the trees in the area are very dense.

  Now if you use the I-20 route and say choose Huntsville over I-10, you can get to it pretty easily from the north. Then you can head south to Houston from there (about another three hours drive). The two lane roads in Texas still have some pretty high speed limits, so you can make good time even on the state roads. It might be worth a trip up from Houston as well if you take I-10, but it is a little more difficult to go west from there if you don't track back south to Houston again or up towards Dallas (which might not be a bad thing as I-20 intersects back with I-10 in western Texas).

• Titan Missile Museum, Tuscon, AZ I don't know what you plan to see exactly in Los Alamos as the Trinity atomic bomb site and Roswell are further south (near Alamagordo). Santa Fe is pretty scenic though if you want some of that old Spanish colonial charm.

  If you angle further south and go through Tuscon, you can visit the Titan Missile Museum, which is literally an old Titan II missile silo (it was used in Star Trek First Contact) and it has a Titan on display in its natural habitat. It is the only place in the country I know where you can see a missile silo like this without working for US STRATCOM.

  The one drawback I see is you'll miss Las Vegas unless you head back north. But you would get a chance to visit another part of the country not many tourists get to visit (take lots of water though and have a good AC as you'll be in the desert). But, this is in the neighborhood of Mount Wilson as well and the desert in that area is perfect for stargazing far from bright lights.

• San Diego Air and Space Museum, San Diego, CA Now if you do stick south instead of going to Vegas (which I do not believe has any air or space museums unless Nellis AFB has a museum nearby), you can do something a little neater as you can follow I-10 (or I-8 until it gets back to I-10) into San Diego from Arizona and you can visit one of the finest aviation museums you'll ever find on the west coast, in my opinion.

  They have Apollo 9 there and plenty of other aircraft and space related exhibits to tickle your fancy. Plus, San Diego is where Lindbergh's Spirit of St. Louis and the Atlas Missile came from (Convair used to be headquartered there).

After that, you can head north towards Los Angeles and Mojave (not sure if you can get onto Edwards property for the museum there or not). Mojave is of course where a few of the private space companies are doing there thing, but I don't believe they are open for tours either. The California Science Center (future home of Endeavour) might be worth a stop, as well as the Columbia Memorial Science Center in nearby Downey, CA (next door to the old North American plant where Apollo CSMs were made and where the shuttle was designed).

I would say probably the most important thing about route planning a trip of this scale is to keep your plans flexible, especially if this is your first visit to the US (or the first time you've done a cross country US drive). Give yourself plenty of times and maybe not pack too much stuff into your itinerary as a fun vacation becomes not so fun if you try to turn it into a marathon (unless you like marathons). Plus, if you go a little off the beaten path and maybe visit some of the sites other tourists normally do not, you can have a unique experience.

Now in terms of when science museums are too much, I can't necessarily answer that. I know you'll at least be seeing one or two Apollo capsules at KSC and they have the rocket park of course. Further west the pickings get a little meager until you get to Houston (yes, the Level 9 tour is a must for a JSC visit).

posted 03-25-2012 06:24 PM               

• If you are going to New Orleans then you could stop by the Michoud Assembly Facility as they have a Saturn SI-C first stage outside that is easily viewed outside the fence.

• At the National Naval Aviation Museum, Pensecola, FL the CM for the first Skylab flight is there plus a number of space exhibits, including an Apollo boilerplate on exhibit outside.

• If you go to the Titan Missile Museum, Tuscon, AZ and you should go to the Pima Air and Space Museum They have the Vomit Comet, Super Guppy and a VIP Gulfstream GII.

• The California Science Center is home of the ASTP CM, Gemini XI and Mercury #5, MR-2 so there is an opportunity to see Mercury, Gemini and Apollo spacecraft in one location.

• In the San Francisco area there is the NASA Ames Exploration Center, a science museum and education center for NASA. There are displays and interactive exhibits about NASA technology, missions and space exploration. A moon rock, meteorite and other geologic samples are on display. The facility is free and open to the public.

posted 03-26-2012 03:43 PM               

Before I get into the specific suggestions I should probably explain that there are also a few non-space related things we plan to see on this trip (gasp!), and that limits our route planning options a bit. For example, New Orleans seems like a cool place, and we definitely want to see that. Monument Valley and the Grand Canyon are also both on the list. Given that, Tucson and San Diego are most likely out of reach on this trip (which is a shame, because I'd love to see the Titan II silo).

The door isn't completely closed on Huntsville, but in the end we will have to make some compromises to get this all done in five weeks while staying somewhat sane, and it still looks to me like the value added may not warrant the detour. I probably see the vertical Saturn V stack as the biggest selling point since I've always wanted to see one of those (although preferably with umbilical tower and launcher attached).

Pensacola looks like a great stop. I didn't know about that. We were currently thinking of stopping over in Panama City on the way to New Orleans, but the Pensacola and the Naval museum looks to me like a much more attractive option.

Hemphill may be a little out of the way depending on what route we take, but it looks interesting and we'll definitely consider it. We're currently leaning towards going from Houston to Austin and taking a southerly route through Texas, but Dallas is certainly a possibility if we find any compelling reason to go there.

As for California, yes, Edwards does have a public tour twice a month that includes the museum and a bus ride along the flight line. We'll be on one of those. We will look into the mentioned LA sites as well. Speaking of the old North American plant, is there anything to see there these days? Is it still an active Rockwell plant?

By the way, what tends to be the policy on (flash) photography in US museums? Is it generally allowed/disallowed, or does it just vary from one place to the next?

Finally, something I've long wanted to do is to climb into an Apollo CSM and lie down in one of the seats to get a feel for what it actually looked like when you were in there. Does anything like that exist somewhere? I have been looking, but failed to find anything. I guess the old simulators are not publicly available if they still exist, so I imagine it would have to be a mock-up. But that would really be fine too as long as the dimensions are right and the interior somewhat realistic.

posted 03-26-2012 04:34 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by luminary:
Finally, something I've long wanted to do is to climb into an Apollo CSM and lie down in one of the seats to get a feel for what it actually looked like when you were in there. Does anything like that exist somewhere?

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You can read more about that one and others, here: Museums with climb-in Apollo command module?

posted 03-26-2012 07:55 PM               

There's also a WW1 battleship at San Jacinto, Texas. The USS Texas is the only existing battlewagon if it's type.

You can't miss a trip to the Alamo along the way, too.

There's the USAF armament museum south of I-10 near Eglin AFB. If you like airplanes with guns, it's an impressive stop. And if you happen to be a fan of the WW2 movie, "12 O'clock High", it's where they filmed all the airfield scenes, at the reserve base at Duke Field along the way to the museum.

Panama City really is not that big a deal. It's just a tourist trap (and a small one) with some very pretty sand beaches. I grew up not that far from there. It's a good place to be in the Summer (not when a hurricane is rolling in though, several hit the town over the years).

posted 03-26-2012 09:26 PM               

I spent close to an hour inside of the thing when I went to Space Camp years ago and it really did give a good idea of what it feels like inside a capsule (it is not fully enclosed as it is open on the sides, but it has couches and the main instrument panel).

Monument Valley eh? Must be an Airwolf fan (and or Doctor Who). Still, if you did angle further south, you could check out Meteor Crater near Winslow, AZ (and Apollo astronauts did geology training there). The Grand Canyon has some cool attractions as well, but be aware it might be crowded since it is a popular tourist destination of course.

I think whatever you decide will be some good choices. And you might find some new and exciting stuff that none of us has even considered.

posted 03-26-2012 09:47 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Jay Chladek:
Still, if you did angle further south, you could check out Meteor Crater near Winslow, AZ (and Apollo astronauts did geology training there). The Grand Canyon has some cool attractions as well, but be aware it might be crowded since it is a popular tourist destination of course.

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Meteor Crater is one of the most impressive rarely-visited places in Arizona. It's not far off the highway, costs a pretty penny to get into, but it's well worth a visit. They also have an Apollo boilerplate.

posted 03-27-2012 01:12 AM               

I'll look for conclusive information on whether the climb-in CM at Huntsville is still there. If so, that would go a long way towards putting Huntsville back in the game.

Winslow crater does sound good, and isn't too far off our intended route. I have heard of the place, but didn't know NASA did geology training there. Sounds like I'll have to revisit the proper episode of From the Earth to the Moon.

posted 03-27-2012 01:17 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by p51:
...but any good spots to hit along the way that a true space fan shouldn't miss?

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posted 03-27-2012 07:12 AM               

• Air Force Space & Missile Museum's History Center near Port Canaveral

• Space Walk of Fame Museum in Titusville

• Valiant Air Command Warbird Museum — not really space-related but might interest you if you're in the area

posted 03-27-2012 03:09 PM               

Valiant Air Command is a good stop as well. They have a nice collection of aircraft including a VERY well preserve F-14A Tomcat with the TF-30 engines still in it (most of the Tomcats in museums no longer have their engines due to the US Government wanting to keep engine parts out of the hands of the Iranians). Valiant at one time also was partnered with a warbirds group based closer to Orlando to offer T-6 Texan and Stearman bi-plane rides, but I think the hurricane seasons of 2004 and 5 killed that.

Still, the Police Hall of Fame next door to the Astronaut Hall of Fame (worth a visit) periodically offers helicopter rides over the area in a Robinson R-44 four place helicopter. Seeing KSC and CCAFS (along with Merritt Island and Cocoa Beach) from the air is quite an inspiring sight. Personally, I liked it a little better from the front seat of an open cockpit Stearman bi-plane myself.

Also, don't forget about the Astronaut Hall of Fame as your Kennedy Space Center Visitors Center ticket gets you admission to there as well. Granted they don't have as much stuff on display, but there are some unique space exhibits there as well and it is worth a stop.

posted 03-28-2012 08:52 AM               

I didn't ask exactly where, but as I recall it's near the Lunar Module Mission Simulator in Saturn V Hall inside the Davidson Center for Space Exploration.

The U.S. Space & Rocket Center is a great place to visit, with a lot of artifacts. In addition to the Saturn V (the dynamic test vehicle), they've got the Apollo 16 command module; an Instrument Unit (two, if you include the one on the Saturn V); a LUT swing arm (swing arm #8, which services the service module) and a white room; an engineering model of the Lunar Roving Vehicle; an LM mockup (apparently a dynamic test descent stage and fabricated ascent stage); a mobile quarantine facility (MQF); S-IVB-212 as part of a Skylab mockup featuring an ATM, MDA, and CSM boilerplate (which appears to have a real SPS engine); two stand-alone F-1 engines; stand-alone J-2, H-1, (cut-away) RL-10, A-7, V-2, Descent Propulsion System, Ascent Propulsion System, and SSME engines; the only remaining Block II Saturn I; a full shuttle stack featuring Pathfinder, a facilities check-out orbiter mockup; a Centaur G (one of which would have flown in one of the next shuttle flights after the ill-fated Challenger mission); Redstone, Jupiter, and Atlas missiles; Juno I and Juno II launch vehicles; a Mercury/Redstone; and more smaller artifacts than I can easily name.

posted 03-28-2012 12:34 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by BMckay:
Don't try to do too much space stuff and neglect the other places you can see when traveling the USA.

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posted 03-28-2012 12:56 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by mikej:
I just verified with USSRC curator Ed Stewart that the sit-in CM simulator is currently on display.

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Many thanks for that. I have to say, though, assuming this is it, that it doesn't look very impressive. I'm mostly after getting a feel for the total volume and amount of "moving around space" in the CM as well as how the windows appear from the seats. I doesn't seem like this sim provides much realism in those regards.

posted 03-28-2012 04:27 PM               

Regarding a CCAFS tour, you have two options.

• KSCVC offers one every day at 12:50 p.m., but that costs $21 per person.

• The Air Force Space & Missile Museum offers a free tour, but it's only on Wednesday and Thursday.

posted 03-29-2012 03:48 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by SpaceKSCBlog:
The KSCVC tour is led by professional tour guides, while the AFSMM tour is led by docents. They pretty much cover the same ground but the AFSMM tour has a little more leeway because it's run by the base.

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posted 03-29-2012 05:20 PM               

As I recall from sitting in it, I could also slightly wiggle my way from the center couch into the transfer tunnel compartment (I don't recall if it had a mocked up telescope sight on the back wall, I don't believe it did).

Now, in terms of other Huntsville attractions, it is a very picturesque part of the country. I forgot how hilly it was until I visited last summer as it is nestled in a nice valley. Listen to the accents and drawls of the people that live there and one kind of chuckles a little when you realize it was many of these same people that built these rockets alongside the Germans at Redstone and Marshall. You get this weird vibe of high tech and low tech in the same part of the country. So you get a slice of Americana that you wouldn't expect to see without going there.