|
Author
|
Topic: Orion: land vs. water landings
|
onesmallstep
Member Posts: 1410
From: Staten Island, New York USA
Registered: Nov 2007
|
posted 11-09-2007 11:35 AM
   
In another thread talking about the Ares I/V contracts, it was mentioned that Orion will apparently no longer have the ability to touch down on dry land by using landing bags/shock absorbers, and NASA will return to water splashdowns. Was this a cost vs. engineering decision, or was it done with the knowledge that a future return from a Moon mission may require a ballistic reentry trajectory, as in Apollo? Will Orion at least have a backup capability to make land touchdowns, as Soyuz can also make water splashdowns, in an emergency? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 50516
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
|
posted 11-09-2007 11:42 AM
In August, NASASpaceflight.com reported Orion landings to be splashdowns: quote:
NASA Constellation and Lockheed Martin have deleted the airbag landing system from the next Orion design cycle (Orion 607) in a weight saving measure, opting to return to an Apollo-style splashdown for the vehicle's end of mission.
The article was based on documentation obtained by NSF that was incorrectly understood to be a final decision rather than a trade study. NASA's Associate Administrator for Exploration Systems Scott Horowitz (at the time) responded to a query posed by Spaceref.com on this subject as follows: quote:
Still being studied, currently part of the trades to see what effects each requirement (including land landing nominally) has on weight.
To the best of my knowledge, the issue is still being studied and no decision has been made either way. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 50516
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
|
posted 12-05-2007 06:56 PM
From the December 3 issue of Space News: quote:
How did Orion manage to lose the weight?Constellation Program Manager Jeff Hanley: In their recent weight scrub effort, the Orion team settled on a targeted water-based landing off the California coast as the nominal landing mode, which the program has accepted.
|
sts205cdr
Member Posts: 746
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Jun 2001
|
posted 12-05-2007 07:02 PM
What does the Navy think about this?--John |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 50516
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
|
posted 12-05-2007 07:09 PM
quote:
Originally posted by sts205cdr:
What does the Navy think about this?
Of course, you're assuming the Navy will be involved. The Navy isn't involved in SRB recovery today... |
Jay Chladek
Member Posts: 2272
From: Bellevue, NE, USA
Registered: Aug 2007
|
posted 12-06-2007 07:33 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
Of course, you're assuming the Navy will be involved. The Navy isn't involved in SRB recovery today...
True, but that is for recovery of spent rocket booster casings. This would be recovery of a manned spacecraft. Even if the actual recovery involved a civilian agency or a contractor effort with ships, the Navy I figure would still need to be involved to secure the area and they would also have to provide some search and rescue assets (along with the Coast Guard) to help recovery if something doesn't go exactly as planned. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 50516
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
|
posted 12-19-2007 08:04 AM
SPACE.com: Water vs. Land: NASA Weighs Landing Options for Orion Spacecraft quote:
NASA expects to decide sometime in 2008 whether the Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle, the agency's space shuttle replacement, will typically splash down off the California coast or touch down on dry land when it returns from space.Time is of the essence because the choice will determine a number of other design decisions that need to be made between now and a scheduled review in September, NASA officials say. It is a decision NASA officials have likened to choosing the shape of the space shuttle's wings or the International Space Station's orbit. As might be expected in cases where the long-term consequences of a decision are not always obvious, NASA is not of one mind on the Orion landing question. "The simple answer is we have not picked a landing mode for Orion yet. Both options are still on the table as we head into the coming year," Rick Gilbrech, NASA's associate administrator for exploration systems told reporters Dec. 10.
|
onesmallstep
Member Posts: 1410
From: Staten Island, New York USA
Registered: Nov 2007
|
posted 12-19-2007 09:17 AM
In the deliberations on Orion's mode of touchdown, has anyone studied a Rogalo-type paraglider like that proposed for Gemini? Or would the weight/cost rule it out, even though it may come in handy if it's used as a land backup if a water-based Orion landing is chosen. -Al |
garymilgrom
Member Posts: 2125
From: Atlanta, GA
Registered: Feb 2007
|
posted 12-19-2007 09:55 AM
According to a recent article in the magazine Spaceflight the paraglider system never worked reliably during testing for Gemini. It was abandonded for these reasons, and therefore I would expect not considered for Orion. |
John Charles
Member Posts: 342
From: Houston, Texas, USA
Registered: Jun 2004
|
posted 12-19-2007 08:55 PM
quote:
Originally posted by garymilgrom:
According to a recent article in the magazine Spaceflight the paraglider system never worked reliably during testing for Gemini.
The paraglider did finally work reliably, but only after NASA decided, in Dec. 1964, that it could wait no longer to incorporate it into Gemini. But North American Aviation continued to use NASA-funded vehicles and equipment for their own flight test program, and eventually made 12 successful flights between September and November 1965. (See Ed Hengeveld's detailed 1998 pamphlet on this project, and for an insider's perspective, see Hal Emigh's 2005 article.) The Rogallo inflatable wing was cumbersome and risky, requiring an active inflation system. So, a 21st century alternative would likely be the self-inflating airfoil tested on NASA's X-38 prototypes in the early 1990s. ------------------
John Charles
Houston, Texas |
Jay Chladek
Member Posts: 2272
From: Bellevue, NE, USA
Registered: Aug 2007
|
posted 12-20-2007 02:30 AM
The Regallo concept was a great one for its time, but today the Parasail style parachutes that have been in use since the late 1970s would be a potentially better solution since they are easier to pack and have the same steering capabilities that Regallo had. The X-38 ISS rescue vehicle was tested with that style of chute (as John already mentioned) and it worked pretty well. So if Orion were to utilize a land landing, I can see it making a comeback rather then the Regallo concept. The only drawback to using it on Orion is Orion is potentially a heavier vehicle then what the X-38 would have been (multiple use vs single use with same size crew onboard). So the parafoil will need to be larger to cushion the descent better. |
advertisement