posted 03-31-2012 02:58 AM               

Jobs, dreams lost after Space Shuttle program ends

The final Space Shuttle mission last summer spelled the end of work for 7,000 people at the Kennedy Space Center in Brevard County, Fla. Scott Pelley talks to some of those people and also examines the ripple effect on the local economy caused by those lost incomes in a 60 Minutes report to be broadcast Sunday, April 1 at 7 p.m. ET/PT.

Sammy Rivera, 60, who worked on the Shuttle for 26 years, is having trouble finding a new job. He's had just three interviews in 11 months. "At the max, I figured three months. I've applied for engineering jobs... technician jobs... entry level jobs," he tells Pelley. Like others laid off from the Space Center, he's scraped together some income with menial work because he can't give up on his American dream. "This is my country. I can't let it go down without a fight."

Chris Milner and his wife also lost their jobs, but Chris had two side businesses he hoped could keep them afloat. "Everybody's been laid off. It's a ripple effect. Businesses closing down... it affects me," he says. He had to lay off nine of his employees in his landscaping business. He now works 17-hour days, 7 days a week to keep the lawn business going and to attend to his other sideline, sign-making. His wife is worried about his workload. "She knows what I got to do," he says. "The problem is we have a 12-year-old at the house that doesn't understand, because he's never had to go without. He's constantly asking for McDonalds. We don't get McDonalds anymore," says Milner.

Pelley and his team visited the Space Center area last summer before the real impact hit. They talked to the owner of a nearby bar where astronauts and launch spectators once gathered. "Shuttles" owner Bill Grillo, then down to eight employees from 25, vowed to remain open no matter what. When Pelley returns seven months later, Grillo has been out of business for a few months already, but is too saddened to pack up. "I can't right now. It's... too painful to do that...A lot of my heart is here and I can't take anything off the walls yet."

Some of the people affected feel pain. Others, like Lou Hanna, had their pride wounded and they feel anger. "Oh yeah," says the crane operator, who once cleared the platform before launch with his massive machine. "Because this does not have to be the last launch. It doesn't have to end this way," he tells Pelley. "I mean it just doesn't make any sense... doesn't compute and I guess I am still in denial because I'm thinking they're going to call me back one day."

posted 04-01-2012 04:23 AM               

I have no idea if the footage taken of me ever aired on the news that day. I kind of doubt it did. But, perhaps.

Of course, Jay Barbree was saying exactly the same thing when Constellation was on the chopping block in 2010 and he should know as he lives in that area and can see the effects first hand of what is going on. Maybe the 60 Minutes report will bring more attention to this, but I kind of doubt it. Still, I am glad national attention is being brought to it, at least for a little while.

posted 04-01-2012 03:15 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by moorouge:
Is this not the same as happened when the Apollo programme came to an end in the 70's?

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Shuttle was budgeted and in development. Of course, the problems with development of the tiles and the SSMEs delayed it a bit longer, but it was still a relatively short period of down time and there was a program in the works.

Other factors to keep in mind is the workers at KSC at the time hadn't been there for very long considering. Some people had been there since the Mercury and Gemini days, but they had to find other jobs when those programs wrapped up (the guys at Martin who supported Titan likely continued work on the Titan III at CCAFS).

Guys like Guenter Wendt were lucky to get invited to work with Apollo as North American's team of newcomers didn't really ramp up until 1965 and Grumman's LM team came a little later.

So by December 1972 when the Grumman guys got their pink slips after Apollo 17 lifted off, a few of those guys had only worked at KSC seven or eight years. They hadn't quite put down deep roots there.

Skylab and ASTP allowed things to transition a little more slowly to no flights for the rest of the Saturn contractor force and indeed one of the prime reasons why NASA wanted to take part in ASTP was because they didn't want to risk having the civil servant and contractor team broken up too soon. So in a sense it was "make busy" work for them. But, it got them a few more months of vehicle processing work.

What makes the drawdown after the shuttle program very different are a couple of reasons. First of all, shuttle has been going on for over three decades (if you count the pad work and fit checks with Enterprise before Columbia even left the pad).

Many of the KSC workers have put down roots in that region, started families and grown old. It became their home, not just their jobs. Once somebody does that, it becomes very hard to move away.

NASA's civil servants are still on the payroll and they can get transferred. Military families can get transferred away as well. A contractor who has likely spent two decades at that job may not necessarily have that opportunity. If they are engineers with degrees, their job prospects might be a little better, but with defense industry cuts, there are a lot of people with similar resumes out in that job market (and a few of them are younger, meaning they will likely get the opportunities even if age discrimination is against the law).

Some of these newer companies don't necessarily want to hire from a perceived "old boys" network either but instead want to start fresh, figuring NASA's old way is the wrong way. So why hire a guy who worked on shuttle? Besides, a young engineer just out of college might not need to make as much as he hasn't started a family yet.

Secondly, when the announcement of shuttle's retirement was made in 2005 or so, Constellation was intended to be the followup program. Things were in progression and there was at least a promise of work for KSC, if it got funded properly. But, the current administration cancelled it and the remains have been kind of drifting along like a zombie ever since. So there really isn't a quick timetable for "Orion" (is it Orion again? or is it MPCV still?).

It seems to be to the point where it likely will be another six years before a fully man rated booster and service module will even leave the pad (assuming a best case scenario) if everything is in place and approved so work can begin on the infrastructure. Sure, some work has been done, but they can only go so far without booster hardware to test with.

The unmanned testing of just the MPCV will take place down the road at CCAFS on an interim booster with ULA likely having all the people it needs to do the work. KSC won't have a need for preparing a launcher until budget for a booster is approved and I don't see that happening anytime soon as long as things continue to progress the way they are.

posted 04-01-2012 03:37 PM               

As such, the majority of the shuttle workforce knew — of should have known — that they would be facing layoffs since as early as 2004 when the decision to retire shuttle was made. Of course, they couldn't pick up and leave (though some did) as there was still a shuttle program to flyout but it was hardly a surprise that the reductions were coming.

In a perfect world, NASA would have been given the funds to continue flying shuttle and develop a next generation spacecraft, but no administration or Congress has ever proposed such an increase in NASA funding. In fact, Constellation folded in large part because Congress refused to properly fund the effort, instead wanting NASA to find the funds in its existing budget.

posted 04-01-2012 09:18 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
...the Orion MPCV has no planned role for the space station, regardless of when the outpost is retired.

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Maybe NASA says it doesn't have a "planned" role, but we can pretty well go under the assumption that the thing is going to be flying at least some missions to the ISS, even if it is just a test flight or two (or three). We can also pretty well bet that some at NASA want some sort of backup piece of hardware around if Dragon were to run into problems, or worse, have a failure that results in a loss of lives.

Even if MPCV has only three seats on it, that is still three seats that can be used instead of Soyuz. While the intent to use Orion for ISS might not be there, it can still act as a bargaining chip with the Russians to keep costs down on the Russian side as having two potential US based man rated systems capable of going to the ISS is superior to only one.

posted 04-01-2012 09:31 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Jay Chladek:
Maybe NASA says it doesn't have a "planned" role, but we can pretty well go under the assumption that the thing is going to be flying at least some missions to the ISS, even if it is just a test flight or two (or three).

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posted 04-01-2012 10:25 PM               

That was important to watch, but not fun. Seeing "Shuttles" shuttered like that was just painful. Only 45 days after the last launch and they couldn't make it work? If that isn't an indication as to the drop off they had in revenue to the area, I don't know what is. Of course, Shuttles had a couple other minor factors working against it (slow meal service on some nights for instance). But all things considered, it was still a nice place to visit, even after the reboot to make it more of a Sports bar. The fact that it is no longer open just saddens me.

Unfortunately I agree with the one bankruptcy consultant, I have a feeling things are going to get worse. The campaign promises from 2008 were also painful to watch as well in the context of things today. With people moving completely away and leaving the keys in the locks of their houses, that tells me they can't sell their houses since no one is buying (double whammy of the housing market crunch as well).

posted 04-01-2012 10:53 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by alanh_7:
I was glad to see a mainstream news agency finally report on the consequences of the shuttles end, and cancellation of Constellation the endless budget cuts that have gutted the program.

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posted 04-01-2012 11:08 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by J.L:
Since Scott Pelley took over as anchor, they seem to make it a point to include any relevant space and astronomy story in the broadcast.

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"Just talk with Scott about the U.S. space program. He's crazy about space."

posted 04-02-2012 08:28 AM               

Neither Democrats nor Republicans in Congress gave Constellation the funding it needed. NASA's budget was not increased to safely fly out the shuttle program AND begin Constellation concurrently like we did with Mercury, Gemini and Apollo.

Constellation was made up of an Ares 1, an Ares V, the Orion and a lander. The Ares 1 is now the Liberty Launch Vehicle under development, the Orion is being built, the Ares V is now the Space Launch System under development. Constellation is dead in name only and its mission isn't clear. You CAN blame the President for that.

The dumbest thing I ever heard a leader say was when the President came to KSC and said: "we've been to the Moon..." Imagine Queen Isabella saying, Columbus has been to the new world. We don't need to go back.

I believe we should be supporting, Space X, Sierra Nevada, Boeing and Lockheed Martin in a new space race - an American space race. We need our own redundant capability but I don't see any of the Presidential candidates speaking about space except Newt Gingrich who doesn’t have a chance of winning. Imagine if the federal government didn't support the delvelopment of airlines.

I was laid off by a NASA supplier in 2010. I was unemployed for eight months and accepted a part-time job because it was the best option. I don't sit at home and cry, I work every day to build my own business and I know the pendulum will eventually swing back. We been down before. Remember the end of Apollo? With respect to Jay - this is exactly like that. We do have vehicles being developed. What we don't have is a clear mission for them - a program that can be embraced.

posted 04-02-2012 09:26 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by alanh_7:
But the promise lasted to the end of the vote count.

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When it came time for Obama to write his fiscal 2011 budget, which was his next big opportunity to help the economy, he began to chip away at some dramatic campaign commitments. For instance, in 2008 he had promised a bold space program. "As President," he had said, "I will establish a robust and balanced civilian space program" that "not only will inspire the world with both human and robotic space exploration but also will again lead in confronting the challenges we face here on Earth, including global climate change, energy independence, and aeronautics research." In November, 2009, his advisers, in a memo, delivered some bad news: "The 10-year deficit has deteriorated by roughly $6 trillion." The next sentence was in boldface type and underlined: "Especially in light of our new fiscal context, it is not possible to achieve the inspiring space program goals discussed during the campaign."

Obama was told that he should cancel NASA's Bush-era Constellation program, along with its support projects, like the Ares launch vehicles, which were designed to return astronauts to the moon by 2020. The program was behind schedule, over budget, and "unachievable." He agreed to end it.

posted 04-02-2012 10:16 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Fra Mauro:
Why the decision to kill the whole program?

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posted 04-02-2012 11:38 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Jay Chladek:
...then why does the design still have what appears to be an APAS-89/95 based docking collar on it.

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posted 04-02-2012 08:06 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Fra Mauro:
In other words, politics and in general, an anti-space bias.

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posted 04-03-2012 09:56 AM               

All the presidents since the advent of the space age have shown an interest in space exploration, whether it was for political gain (e.g. Kennedy), self-glory (e.g. Nixon), the good of the nation (e.g. Reagan) or personal curiosity (e.g. Clinton). But presidents do not have the luxury of acting based on their interest alone.

posted 04-03-2012 11:41 AM               

But if you examine the situation objectively it's a different story. As others have said, the workers at KSC and elsewhere have known this was coming for years. And everyone knows that no job is guaranteed forever.

Most of us have been let go from one job or another, and many have had the experience of firing people. It's not pleasant on either side, but sometimes it's the best solution to a situation. The current economic situation demands innovative solutions and the space program must contribute its share.

I firmly believe the Florida space coast and the KSC employee count will recover once new programs come to fruition, just like post Apollo days. And if the private sector is successful at delivering spacecraft that perform as advertised the workforce needed may exceed past numbers.

posted 04-03-2012 01:25 PM               

On Sunday, 60 Minutes aired a story that captured some of what the space shuttle era meant to Florida's Space Coast. Unfortunately, the piece also missed an awful lot of important context about the end of that era and where we’re headed from here.

As a former shuttle astronaut and the Administrator of NASA, nobody has higher regard for the incredible men and women who worked on the Space Shuttle Program. And I certainly understand that for some of those men and women, this transitional period will not be easy.

But before we get to what we're doing, it is important to remember the context of how we came to our current circumstances...

posted 04-03-2012 10:34 PM               

Most unfortunate, but true, were the lost of aerospace workers here by the thousands with jobs and long-standing careers cut off.

Their loss, believe me, is deeply felt by all of us in the area from far-up north Titusville/Mims to southward Melbourne/ Palm Bay, and all in-between.

Indeed, strong emotions from all sides, are being felt and talked about here on a daily basis.

Heck, many of those dedicated space workers that got their layoff notices within the last 2-3 years were/are good friends of mine. But most that I know are still here.

Though some have already left Brevard County for other work opportunities, others have chosen to stay behind, with some being fortunate to transfer into other employment positions. Some even aerospace related.

Remember — it was only a short few-minutes segment — which only was able to touch or briefly mention some of the topics covered.

Of those issues pointed out, in my opinion, there wasn't a mention or brief discussion
pertaining to "the other side" of the coin, so-to-speak.

In particular, our beloved Space Coast isn't a "ghost town," as many viewing the news feature might be thinking after seeing it.

Much of the film footage focused in the Titusville area, located directly across from the Indian River to the shuttle launch complex area.

Some of the buildings, stores, and facilities highlighted had been abandoned for many years, long before the last shuttles flew into space.

Take for instance Titusville's two major and only shopping malls; Searstown and Miracle City Mall.

During the Apollo era, both public shopping centers were to a full capacity of customers and visiting patrons, many "here" to witness American astronauts going to the moon and astronaut crews rocketing to our first space station called Skylab.

posted 04-03-2012 11:45 PM               

As personal budgets get tighter, things may begin to get more desperate for some. Maybe it is a little too soon to make a conclusion about what is happening to the local economies. But this is only the start as we are still only nine months after STS-135. But at a glance, it looks like an exodus is starting. Errors or not, 60 Minutes has drawn attention to the situation and given it a national spotlight, which is most certainly what it deserves.

Concerning the other programs starting up (some of which under CCDev), they are still a bit out there and have no guarantees for success. At least with shuttle development, regardless of the outcome, NASA was going to try and make the thing work since their reputation was on the line.

SpaceX is on the threshold of something great, but success is still not yet guaranteed. So I am going to be doing a lot of praying when the next Dragon flies in the hope that helps it to achieve all its test objectives safely. Dreamchaser has made some strides, but they have a long way to go and are dependent on a booster (Atlas V) that hasn't even been man rated yet (as are a couple other programs).

The ATK Liberty system I don't think has been fully green lit as a project, and it won't be carrying Orion as Ares I was slated to do. Maybe ATK, the Europeans (for the Ariane V upper stage) and Boeing (who may do a craft for it to go to Bigelow's station if that gets built) can make it work, but doing that pretty much hit the reset button on the Ares I work and added time to develop it since they've also drew down their contractor work force (less people can only do so much). About the only thing Liberty is allowing ATK to do is maybe have a fall back position if SLS falls by the wayside due to another administration change or further budget cuts.

posted 04-04-2012 09:45 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Jay Chladek:
Maybe ATK, the Europeans (for the Ariane V upper stage) and Boeing (who may do a craft for it to go to Bigelow's station if that gets built) can make it work,

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posted 04-05-2012 07:52 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Jim Behling:
More than likely it will be Boeing and/or Dream Chaser on an ULA Atlas. Liberty isn't in the picture.

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At least ULA Atlas has hardware and manufacturing set up for it already. So assuming the man rating of the thing doesn't require too much effort it at least could be ready to go when a spacecraft is (be it winged or capsule style). Some might argue that "Liberty" is ready as well, but it takes more than a paper design meshing two pieces of hardware together to make a successful rocket booster when the designs in question have never been used together like this before.