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Author
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Topic: Yankee pitcher's widow wants court to hide Hoot Gibson's history as an astronaut
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Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 02-22-2011 06:35 AM
The New York Post reports that the lawyers for the widow of Yankee pitcher Cory Lidle, who was killed in a 2006 single-engine plane crash, want to keep former space shuttle commander Hoot Gibson from telling jurors about his NASA career. Ex-astronaut Robert "Hoot" Gibson is slated to appear as an expert witness for aircraft manufacturer Cirrus Design, which Melanie Lidle has charged with negligence in the design of her late husband's Cirrus SR20 G2.The plane slammed into an apartment building while making a turn over the Hudson River. Court papers say Gibson's spaceman credentials are "simply irrelevant" to the 2006 crash that killed Lidle and his pal/flight instructor Tyler Stanger. "Flying an airplane and commanding a space shuttle are two very different things," the Manhattan federal court filing says. "The space shuttle is fully automated with an autopilot, in sharp contrast to a single-engine airplane that a pilot flies manually from airport to airport." "Thus, it is unclear how expertise gleaned from space travel can apply to the instant matter, which was entirely terrestrial." The lawyers also say Gibson's experience investigating the loss of space shuttle Challenger should be off limits because the tragedy "remains a harrowing experience for most Americans. The example of the Space Shuttle Challenger is exactly the kind of irrelevant and unfairly prejudicial testimony plaintiffs suspect the defendant will attempt to introduce." |
albatron Member Posts: 2732 From: Stuart, Florida Registered: Jun 2000
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posted 02-22-2011 08:40 AM
The space shuttle is fully automated with an autopilot Well it might be nice if those who are presenting an argument knew what they were talking about. There is this little portion of the flight called "approach and landing". |
capoetc Member Posts: 2169 From: McKinney TX (USA) Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 02-22-2011 08:45 AM
After its investigation, the NTSB concluded that the probable cause of the Cory Lidle accident was the pilots' inadequate planning, judgment, and airmanship in the performance of a 180 degree turn maneuver inside of a limited turning space. To avoid having to make the 180 degree turn, the 88-hour private pilot and his instructor could have contacted LaGuardia Approach control and received permission to transit the Class B airspace (instrument-flight-rules controlled airspace requiring specific aircraft equipment and pilot training to enter) to the north. They never made the request -- perhaps by the time they realized it they knew they would never get approval in time before entering the Class B airspace since LaGuardia approach is a pretty busy frequency. The jury will need to know what qualifies Gibson as an expert witness -- being a navy pilot, former test pilot, former airline pilot... all of these things will be more than sufficient even if his NASA affiliation is disallowed. This case should be cut-and-dried, barring heroic efforts on the part of the plaintiff's lawyers and gross errors on the part of the defendant's attorneys, in my opinion. Copy of the accident report is available here. |
brianjbradley Member Posts: 114 From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Registered: Dec 2010
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posted 02-22-2011 08:51 AM
If anything, Gibson's experience an astronaut makes him even more of an expert to provide testimony. If lack of training was part of the investigation findings into this accident, surely with his astronaut career, Gibson can account for the importance for training and even provide best practices into building a training program for getting an aircraft license. |
mjanovec Member Posts: 3811 From: Midwest, USA Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 02-22-2011 12:00 PM
Can we also assume the plaintiffs will be hiding the identity (and career) of the Yankee pitcher who died in the crash, to avoid any irrelevant and prejudicial influence it might have upon the jury? |
ea757grrl Member Posts: 729 From: South Carolina Registered: Jul 2006
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posted 02-22-2011 01:58 PM
This really would be like calling Mario Andretti or A.J. Foyt to the stand but forbidding them to talk about winning the Indy 500; you disregard the fact they've won just about everything else in motorsport, and in all different types of race cars, so it ends up backfiring on you (no pun intended).Even if you toss out his years at NASA, Hoot Gibson has flown so many different aircraft, of different capabilities, in so many different capacities and environments -- everything from routine airline flights to air races. I think I have an idea of the strategy the legal team is trying to employ, but I wonder if they fully appreciate just how futile a move this would be in practice. To use the old cliche, if you put wings on a washing machine, Hoot Gibson would know how to fly it. |
Jay Chladek Member Posts: 2272 From: Bellevue, NE, USA Registered: Aug 2007
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posted 02-22-2011 02:08 PM
Plus, if it gets into a comparison between a Cirrus SR-22 trying to execute a really tight turn in a dead end VFR air cooridor really only intended for helicopters, than I doubt something like a Beechcraft Bonanza (another high performance single engine passenger plane) would do much better without ending up in a building as well.If they are trying to litigate against the plane's flight controls and glass cockpit, then a VFR pilot will likely say the first rule of VFR is keep your head looking around outside to avoid things and not spending it all head down in the moving map display, and you don't need somebody like Hoot Gibson, fixed wing pilot extraordinare, to point that out. |
Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 02-22-2011 02:22 PM
Suppose for a moment that the lawyers are successful in their motion, are they also going to screen out jurors who possess more than a passing knowledge of the space program? What would happen if one of them recognized Gibson (as he is among the more well known shuttle astronauts) and informed the others during a break or deliberations. Wouldn't they find it odd then that no one was mentioning his experience? |
Spacepsycho Member Posts: 818 From: Huntington Beach, Calif. Registered: Aug 2004
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posted 02-22-2011 03:47 PM
It's mandatory for attorneys to challenge the qualifications and expertise of opposing "expert" testimony. Their job is to cause and plant any doubt in the jury's mind, as to the validity of information by an expert. Regardless of an experts pedigree for one side, the other side will have (if they can afford it), an equal expert who will refute what the other expert says. It's like the old addage, "if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS." I've seen it worked to perfection in many cases, where the jury is so confused by half truths, outright lies, exaggerations, with smoke and mirrors thrown in for good measure, sometimes it's impossible to know who's right or wrong. However, when you have someone with the credentials of Hoot Gibson, his expertise and testimony is so damaging to the opposition's case, as to cause panic in the opposing attorney. Who is more of an expert in aviation than Hoot Gibson? The answer is... not many and anyone whose expertise is equal or better than Hoot's, won't be testifying to something false. Hoot is so universally respected in the aviation field, that his expert opinion carries a weight seldom found in any field. Since NASA and it's employees enjoy a status in society of being some of the finest minds this country has produced, any jury who's told that Hoot Gibson, or for that matter most any NASA astronaut or engineer, will have their testimony regarded at the ironclad truth. |
328KF Member Posts: 1234 From: Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 02-22-2011 03:59 PM
A quick search on this topic yields 241 hits online, and I would think that most New York area news outlets would pick up on it as well. What are the chances that most potential jurors won't have heard about this story before reporting for duty?The lawyers are obviously trying to limit the credibility of an expert witness with a wide range of relevent experience, including time in the Cirrus. As much as I hate the term "pilot error", a low-time pilot who can afford a very high-performance aircraft, even with a CFI onboard, is an invitation for an accident. Add the complexity of the airspace to the situation, and it is easy for both to get overloaded and make a mistake. The worst part is, the tight turn and resultant loss of control was not a maneuver to avoid a solid object like a mountain, but rather an imaginary border of restricted airspace. I would prefer to have a violation or warning for entering that airspace than the outcome these pilots had. Cirrus is no doubt being accused of building an unsafe aircraft with poor flight characteristics at low speeds. The aircraft is equipped with a BRS recovery parachute, which lowers the entire plane to the ground in an emergency. While this is a great safety device if there is sufficient altitude to use it, the lawyers are likely trying to spin this into a "crutch" that was added to compensate for a dangerous design. I hope Mr. Gibson can help prove this inaccurate. |
Murph Member Posts: 108 From: New York, NY USA Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 02-22-2011 08:29 PM
Oddly enough I have a few small connections to all of this. I was at the astronaut signing in Florida several years ago, staying in the Holiday Inn, when I was introduced to Hoot one evening. My law practice is where he once lived, in Long Island, and he mentioned that. We talked about his being an expert witness, and he told me being an attorney was "interesting". Talk about a kind comment, from a man with his resume, calling what I did interesting. Me, my wife and some new friends drank beer with Hoot into the late evening, talking both law and space, mostly space, thank god. I also live about 800 yards from where Lidle's plane crashed, and watched the building burn, as my neighbor, a firefighter, battled it. |
onesmallstep Member Posts: 1310 From: Staten Island, New York USA Registered: Nov 2007
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posted 02-23-2011 05:59 PM
This accident bears an eerie similarity with the one that took the life of Yankee catcher Thurman Munson, also piloting his own high-end plane, in this case a jet, and accounts that he did not have enough training/stick time in the cockpit. |
Lou Chinal Member Posts: 1306 From: Staten Island, NY Registered: Jun 2007
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posted 02-26-2011 01:58 AM
To add to what Jodie already said, there is another old cliche in avaition. Plan the flight - Fly the plan.No amount of money can buy experience. | |
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