Posts: 244
From: Adelaide, South Australia
Registered: Apr 2005

posted 09-27-2010 09:04 AM            

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I was re-reading Bryan Burroughs' excellent book "Dragonfly" recently, and came across the sad saga of how John Blaha's and Shannon Lucid's previously close friendship was put under enormous strain because of the training pressures in Star City for the Mir increments, and how they ended up not on speaking terms. Whilst this was not an isolated 'bust-up' (Thagard and Bondar come to mind, also during the Phase I Shuttle/Mir program), the Blaha/Lucid incident appears to have ended (or at least come close to ending) a long lasting working and personal friendship. Remember, they had flown two Shuttle missions together.

Does anybody know whether the two veteran astronauts ever resolved their differences?

Posts: 1042
From: UK
Registered: Apr 2005

posted 09-28-2010 04:00 AM            

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"Dragonfly" is seen as exaggerated by those in NASA, and insightful by outsiders.

It's probably best to ask the astronauts in question. I assume you meant Norm Thagard and Bonnie Dunbar (prime and backup for Mir-18 in 1995), rather than Roberta Bondar who flew with Thagard on STS-42 a few years earlier.

One can only guess how many other personality clashes there have been since then, such as the media stories before ISS Expeditions 1 and 9 launched.

I posted a similar topic awhile ago, and would appreciate any replies.

Posts: 1966
From: Atlanta, GA
Registered: Feb 2007

posted 09-28-2010 05:59 AM               

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Gentlemen: With over 400 people flown on the Shuttle it is inevitable that some friction between crew memebers would occur. They wouldn't be human if they didn't have emotions as well as preferences. And living in something the size of a mini-van (I know the ISS is larger) for up to two weeks cannot help the situation.

Question: When your friends or loved ones have issues in their personal relationships do you pry into the details of them? I bet you don't, as most people are too polite to question intimate items like these. Why then do we not give the same respect to those who sacrifice so much to contribute to the manned space program?

Posts: 1505
From: Bluffton IN USA
Registered: Oct 2007

posted 09-28-2010 08:50 AM               

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The original post was a question about a bit of information that was already out in public, so I don't see the harm in asking for an update in case anyone knows or cares.

There ARE often personality conflicts between astronauts, just as in any working environment. But I agree a public forum is not the place to air them. Better they be talked about over a few beers between people with a passing interest.

Posts: 1042
From: UK
Registered: Apr 2005

posted 09-28-2010 10:00 AM            

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The names and missions mentioned are in fact public record, so it's not as if I'm prying.

And astronauts are public figures and publicly funded. I would argue that it's in the public interest to know if mission performance was helped or hindered as a consequence.

Burrough's book remains a fascinating perspective into the inner workings of NASA's Astronaut Corps. I found the chapter about Blaine Hammond eye-opening.

Posts: 977
From: Michigan
Registered: Jul 2006

posted 09-28-2010 11:42 AM               

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Never heard of this book. Just picked it up from Amazon for 4 bucks.

Thanks Henry!

Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 09-28-2010 11:55 AM               

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Sharing dinner in Moscow, I asked a Mir space station resident, a veteran cosmonaut, about what was then still a recent release, "Dragonfly." His response was that the book was 50 percent true, 50 percent false.

Asked what part was false, he said that if the book was describing people, it was false.

Posts: 274
From:
Registered: Sep 2010

posted 09-28-2010 02:48 PM            

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quote:

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Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
Asked what part was false, he said that if the book was describing people, it was false.

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If this applies to the Blaha/Lucid relationship than Mr. Burrough's is guilty of some high academic/journalistic crimes, as he quotes both Blaha and Lucid acknowledging the demise of their friendship. I doubt that is the case.

I've heard some of the technical aspects (in regards to the orbital collision) as wrong. The errors I've caught have been minor. He refers to Steve Nagel as a "Navy flyer" when he's USAF, and Bill Shepherd as a "Shuttle Commander", when he was a Mission Specialist (neither seem to have been interviewed for the book, but are mentioned a couple times).

One thing that always had me cringe is when he called some non-Shuttle-Mir flights "routine shuttle missions". It really illustrates how complacent the country was in the 90's about shuttle flights.

Posts: 1042
From: UK
Registered: Apr 2005

posted 09-29-2010 02:25 AM            

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Considering Burrough's book was published in 1998, I'm surprised he's never faced a libel suit for writing stuff that's "50 percent false".

If Burrough used anonymous sources within the US and Russian human spaceflight programmes, then some of his assertions and claims are either accurate or not.

Until they're disproved, I'll keep an open mind about "Dragonfly".

Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

Posts: 358
From: Studio City CA USA
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 09-29-2010 09:04 AM               

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For what it's worth, I had a conversation much like Robert's with a NASA astronaut who was very familiar with Shuttle, Mir and the whole operation from the inside... Me: "I found DRAGONFLY about 80 percent accurate." Astronaut: "Closer to 90 percent".

And I don't think it's a good idea to be tossing terms like "libel" around.

Posts: 1234
From:
Registered: Apr 2008

posted 09-29-2010 09:41 AM               

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On the other hand, I attended a talk by one of the Mir program astronauts just after the book was published. I took it along in the hopes of getting it signed and then going on to have the rest of the participating crewmembers sign it as well.

I had a great opportunity to talk with him afterward, but he saw the book in my hand from many yards away. "Oh no! Not that book." he said for all to hear. He and I had a long discussion, which consisted of going point by point through the chapter concerning his flight and debunking much of it.

He said he felt taken advantage of by the author due to the fact that he spent many hours in interviews, only to have quotes taken out of context by the author in order to sensationalize or put a dramatic, even negative spin on his story.

His spontaneous reaction to seeing the book has always stuck with me, and I have not picked it up since, simply because I would now read it more as a work of fiction than of fact.

Needless to say, it remains unsigned.

Posts: 1042
From: UK
Registered: Apr 2005

Posts: 1751
From: Killingly, CT
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 09-29-2010 12:28 PM               

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I bought it, read it and put in on a shelf at a local restaurant that lets you take free books home to keep.

I did not keep it as one of my valued space books in my collection.

Posts: 274
From:
Registered: Sep 2010

posted 09-29-2010 09:59 PM            

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quote:

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Originally posted by issman1:
If Burrough used anonymous sources within the US and Russian human spaceflight programmes, then some of his assertions and claims are either accurate or not.

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He clearly didn't. By his accounts (in the acknowledgment section of his book) he had extensive interviews with all of the Shuttle-Mir Astronauts. He interviewed a number of Cosmonauts, Astronauts and a slew of NASA and Russian Space Agency officials. He notes some reluctance by the Russian hierarchy for submit to his interviews (while the Cosmonauts themselves were quite open), and that Jerry Linenger was hesitant at first, as he was writing (and did release) his own account of his time on Mir.

You may disagree with his conclusions, but Burroughs clearly spoke to all the right people.

On an aside, while paging through the book again, I found it interesting to note some of the NASA scientists, and Flight Surgeons who are now Astronauts in the book: Peggy Whitson, Mike Barratt and Tom Marshburn notably.

Posts: 244
From: Adelaide, South Australia
Registered: Apr 2005

posted 10-01-2010 08:49 PM            

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quote:

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Originally posted by issman1:
I assume you meant Norm Thagard and Bonnie Dunbar (prime and backup for Mir-18 in 1995), rather than Roberta Bondar who flew with Thagard on STS-42 a few years earlier.

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You are correct; I was thinking Dunbar but wrote Bondar with whom Thagard had flown STS-42. Thanks for picking this up.

Whilst not answering the original question, this thread has been very interesting, especially the astronauts' and cosmonauts' reactions to the book which, according to the various posts, differ wildly. The percentage descriptions can't all be accurate!