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Author
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Topic: Apollo astros that didn't return
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MrSpace86
Member Posts: 1618
From: Gardner, KS, USA
Registered: Feb 2003
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posted 06-12-2005 06:07 PM
   
Why did some of the early Apollo astronauts (mainly the command and service module pilots) from Apollo 7, 8, and 9 never return to space on a mission? Yes, some were grounded, but why? Any other reasons?
Thanks.
-Rodrigo |
Tom
Member Posts: 1597
From: New York
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 06-12-2005 08:19 PM
Only the Apollo 7 CMP (Donn Eisele) never returned to space. Both Apollo 8 and 9 CMPs flew again as CDRs of Apollo 13 and 15, respectively. |
MrSpace86
Member Posts: 1618
From: Gardner, KS, USA
Registered: Feb 2003
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posted 06-12-2005 09:39 PM
Cunningham of Apollo 7, Borman of Apollo 8, Rusty from Apollo 9 did not return. Was it because of their behaviors and/or health?
-Rodrigo |
issman1
Member Posts: 1042
From: UK
Registered: Apr 2005
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posted 06-13-2005 12:47 PM
Rusty Schweickart has speculated that his illness during the early phase of Apollo 9 was probably the reason why he never flew again. Infact, this is alluded to in the episode "Spider" in the superb TV mini-series "From the Earth to the Moon". |
quantumleap
Member Posts: 46
From: Newmarket, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Apr 2005
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posted 06-13-2005 02:33 PM
Apollo 7 - Neither Wally Schirra, Donn Eisele or Walt Cunnigham flew again.Apollo 8 - Frank Borman and Bill Anders did not fly again. Apollo 9 - Jim McDivitt and Rusty Schweikart did not fly again. So only 2 of the 9 from these crews flew again (Jim Lovell on Apollo 13, and Dave Scott on Apollo 15). From what I've read in numerous biographies/autobiographies the reasons seem to be: Wally Schirra announced he was leaving NASA afterwards before his flight. Donn Eisele and Walt Cunningham were effectively frozen out because of the way the crew of Apollo 7 (mainly Wally Schirra but they were viewed similarly) had issues with Mission Control during the flight. Walt Cunningham worked very hard to redeem himself and was at one time looking to command one of the Skylab missions before Pete Conrad and Al Bean stepped back into the picture. Frank Borman had also decided Apollo 8 was his last flight anyway. Bill Anders he decided to take up a position as US Ambassador to Norway. Jim McDivitt moved up to become the Astronaut's boss when Al Shepard returned to flight status to fly on Apollo 14. Rusty Schweikart may have been because of his space adaption sickness problems. It was also speculated that like Walt Cunningham, being a civilian when they entered NASA didn't help because of the issues both had. [This message has been edited by quantumleap (edited June 13, 2005).] |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3120
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 06-13-2005 04:17 PM
Frank Borman commanded the first expedition to leave Planet Earth and visit another world. That assured his place in history, and it is understandable that he called it a day after that. |
Matt T
Member Posts: 1368
From: Chester, Cheshire, UK
Registered: May 2001
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posted 06-13-2005 05:24 PM
Both Anders and McDivitt were keen to return to the moon, but neither were happy with the seats offered to them. Anders wanted a moonwalk, but Deke was only offering a CMP's seat. McDivitt wanted the red stripe on his arm but was only offered a job as Shepard's caddy  Cheers,
Matt ------------------
www.spaceracemuseum.com |
spacegrl13
Member Posts: 122
From: Portland, Oregon, U.S.
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 06-13-2005 06:24 PM
I know that Walt Cunningham spent a lot of time as head of the Skylab Program and I think it's reasonable that Al Bean and Pete Conrad were able to step in line infront of him, but I never understood why Jerry Carr was Skylab III CDR instead of Walt. Does anyone have a reason? In what I have read it also seems that Walt Cunningham was the least active of the 3 memebers in participating in the Apollo 7 problems with mission control.
cheers,
Helen |
Ryan Walters
Member Posts: 78
From: Hattiesburg, MS, USA
Registered: Apr 2005
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posted 06-13-2005 06:35 PM
I always wondered why Mike Collins did not fly again? He should have been in line to command a moon landing mission. I know about the controversy over Cernan and Gordon for Apollo 17 but what about Collins? I have not read his book so does anyone have any insight on this? |
Matt T
Member Posts: 1368
From: Chester, Cheshire, UK
Registered: May 2001
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posted 06-13-2005 06:52 PM
He was offered the command of Apollo 17, but turned it down. The prospect of three more years training (four, as it turned out) seemed too much. He also described feeling no desire to return to the moon as Apollo 11 left lunar orbit, and almost seemed glad to leave.But he also admitted to having some second thoughts as he watched Gene Cernan during the Apollo 17 EVAs. Cheers,
Matt ------------------
www.spaceracemuseum.com |
taneal1
Member Posts: 230
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: Feb 2004
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posted 06-13-2005 10:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Matt T:
< McDivitt w[as] keen to return to the moon... McDivitt wanted the red stripe on his arm but was only offered a job as Shepard's caddy >
Hi Matt,Actually, McDivitt has stated (confirmed recently in Dave Scott's book) that he was retiring from spaceflight after Apollo 9 because he was "tired" of the grind. He also has stated that he would have stayed to fly the first landing, and possibly the second, but not a later mission. He was offerred the LMP slot with Shepard on 13 initially, but following upper managements rejection of Shepard for CDR on 13, McDivitt has stated clearly that he could have "commanded 13, if he'd wanted it." He preferred the management position that he assumed later in the program. Tom |
Ryan Walters
Member Posts: 78
From: Hattiesburg, MS, USA
Registered: Apr 2005
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posted 06-13-2005 11:19 PM
Thanks Matt! I have one other one for you. Did Tom Stafford not want a lunar landing mission also? Had he not flown again I might have understood but since he came back for Apollo-Soyuz...? I haven't read his book either. I need to get caught up on my reading. |
Henry_Heatherbank
New Member Posts:
From:
Registered:
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posted 06-13-2005 11:32 PM
The "grind" that has been mentioned up-thread should not be underestimated. It is easy to question why some astros didn't stay in the rotation for much longer; the best case in point is that of Collins after 11. Virtually guaranteed command of 17 (barring death or injury), the lure of leaving footprints seemingly makes his decision to leave NASA after 11 a very curious one. But the "grind" was all consuming; both Lovell and Borman in their respective books recount Borman's visit to Lovell at JSC in late 1970/early 1971 in training for 13, during which Borman is quoted as asking Lovell,
"Aren't you tired of all of THIS??", referring, of course to the endless training, almost in sheer relief that in leaving NASA, he had been liberated from it.Also bear in mind that Gemini and the Fire wore out Schirra, so that by the time of Apollo 7, he was more than ready to leave. In that context, the decision by Collins not to hang around is very understsandable. On top of that, he also makes reference in "Carrying the Fire" to the different aspects of lunar flights being like fragile "daisy chains" that can easily break, and that he had cheated enough risk going to the Moon once on 11. Then there were guys like Cernan, Lovell and Young who seemed to enjoy the rotation, and seemed oblivious to the grind ... I recall that Lovell assisted in backroom geology duties well after 13 right up until 17 some two and a half years later. |
Matt T
Member Posts: 1368
From: Chester, Cheshire, UK
Registered: May 2001
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posted 06-14-2005 03:13 AM
Hi Ryan,I actually gave up on Stafford's book (didn't find it offered much of an insight into the man himself) so I'm the wrong person to ask. I've heard mention of Stafford's political ambitions, I believe they may have figured in the hiatus of his flight status. (Wow, I didn't know there was a rhyme for hiatus!  ) Tom - thanks for the heads up. Cheers,
Matt ------------------
www.spaceracemuseum.com |
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