Topic: [Heritage] Signature Space Exploration (April 2013)
lunareagle Member
Posts: 587 From: Michigan Registered: Nov 1999
posted 03-26-2013 09:30 AM
Just a heads up to advise that Heritage Auctions opened its site for bidding yesterday for the April 18 Space Sale.
This looks to be one of the largest space sales to date with approximately 600 lots.
spaced out Member
Posts: 3110 From: Paris, France Registered: Aug 2003
posted 03-26-2013 01:29 PM
I see they've skipped the usual strict chronological ordering and grouped by types of item, with covers followed by medallions, followed by flown items etc.
Personally I think it makes for a refreshing change and it obviously makes life easier for those concentrating on certain categories of item.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
A toy plane that Neil Armstrong is said to have played with as a child — years before he became a naval aviator, research pilot and the first astronaut to walk on the moon — will be auctioned this month in Dallas.
The red metal toy, which Heritage Auctions expects to sell for as much as $2,500 at its April 18 space-themed sale, was found by the family who bought Armstrong's boyhood home in 1964. The model airplane was discovered in the house's attic, along with a red wagon and some homework papers that also belonged to the future moonwalker.
atpowell Member
Posts: 45 From: Pittsburgh, PA USA Registered: Apr 2004
posted 04-18-2013 12:36 PM
Some of the prices in today’s Heritage auction are stunningly high. $55K for a single Apollo 11 LM Activation Checklist Page (40112), $20K for an Apollo 11 Flight Plan page (Lot 40117). I remember when I thought a single signed flight plan page at $4K was crazy expensive a few years ago. Wow...
And the Flown Robbins seemed to be creeping up also from previous auctions. I had a few things I wanted, but they quickly went way beyond my budget...
freshspot unregistered
posted 04-18-2013 01:48 PM
I disagree. While some marquis items went high, I thought that many items went very low. Apollo 12 complete flown checklist for under $10,000. Apollo 17 flown food for $2,250. An Apollo 8 flown fitness patch for under $1,000. There were so many good items that sleepers were ripe for the taking.
Tallpaul Member
Posts: 153 From: Rocky Point, NY, USA Registered: Feb 2012
posted 04-18-2013 05:45 PM
Is it just me or did some of the flown Flight Line medals sell rather cheaply?
SkyMan1958 Member
Posts: 867 From: CA. Registered: Jan 2011
posted 04-18-2013 08:43 PM
quote:Originally posted by Tallpaul: Is it just me or did some of the flown Flight Line medals sell rather cheaply?
For what it's worth, they are Fliteline medals (well, technically, they are medallions).
Flitelines have a habit of going all over the price range. It is not uncommon to see them going for ~ $800. Generally, I'd say for most of them they tend to range in the $1,000 - $2,500 range. On the other hand, some of them also can go for comparably quite high prices, such as lot 40060, a Gemini 8 one with Dave Scott provenance, that went for ~ $5,500.
Tallpaul Member
Posts: 153 From: Rocky Point, NY, USA Registered: Feb 2012
posted 04-19-2013 11:09 AM
As a newbie, "for what it's worth" means a lot to me. Thank you for the information and your insight about the Flite Line medallions. I actually won one of the Gemini X medallions, it seemed to be relatively inexpensive for a flown item, especially one from the Gemini era. To this point, my collecting focus has been signed first editions of astronaut autobiographies and signed MGA covers. In this auction the prices for covers were bid up beyond what I could afford, especially the Apollo VIII cover which I did covet.
gliderpilotuk Member
Posts: 3398 From: London, UK Registered: Feb 2002
posted 04-19-2013 11:16 AM
The prices were all over the shop and probably indicate that the buyers were long cash and short knowledge.
Take a bog-standard Apollo 8 cover (lot 40017) at $4,182, or Ap 13 (lot 40029) at $6,572!! But Lot 40036 flown Ap 15 cover went for less than $1,800.
It also seems we've seen the peak of prices for Armstrong WSS.
Can anyone explain the "make offer to owner" option that appears on certain items?
spkjb Member
Posts: 144 From: Merritt Island, Florida USA Registered: May 2011
posted 04-19-2013 05:57 PM
I agree, that baffled me.
GACspaceguy Member
Posts: 2476 From: Guyton, GA Registered: Jan 2006
posted 04-19-2013 06:09 PM
quote:Originally posted by gliderpilotuk: Can anyone explain the "make offer to owner" option that appears on certain items?
I have done this with them before. As a winner, you can click on a button that allows Heritage show that you, the winner, is willing to accept offers to sell the item(s) you have just won.
On another note, I felt that the prices on the models were over priced this time.
Greggy_D Member
Posts: 977 From: Michigan Registered: Jul 2006
posted 04-21-2013 12:03 PM
On the items I was interested in, the prices quickly went past my limit. Ended up with absolutely nothing from this auction.
tnperri Member
Posts: 452 From: Malvern, Ohio Registered: Jun 2011
posted 04-21-2013 01:18 PM
I was able to get one item as the only bidder. But on several others I wanted, they went over $1000 of the estimated price.
SkyMan1958 Member
Posts: 867 From: CA. Registered: Jan 2011
posted 04-21-2013 06:39 PM
quote:Originally posted by Tallpaul: I actually won one of the Gemini X medallions, it seemed to be relatively inexpensive for a flown item, especially one from the Gemini era.
TallPaul, CONGRATULATIONS on the Gemini 10 Fliteline!!!
I'm a LONGGGG time numismatic (which means having to do with coins, bills, medals, medallions, tokens etc.) collector. Heritage is actually one of the major numismatic auction houses in the US, so they have a pretty good set of info having to do with these sort of items. Here's a webpage of theirs that will given you more info about Flitelines.
For your future info, in case you decide to collect the series, there are two main reasons for big price differentials between Flitelines that come from the same flight. The first is condition, e.g. is the medallion in good shape, or does it have a lot of corrosion etc. going on? The second is what sort of provenance does the Fliteline have. Flitelines from a person who flew on the mission and included a signed CoA/LoA with the medallion tend to do better than Flitelines that were purchased by other astronauts via the astronaut office.
Have fun collecting them!!!
Mercurypgm Member
Posts: 292 From: Houston, Tx Registered: Aug 2002
posted 04-22-2013 01:52 PM
As for the Flitelines, I purchased two complete sets in lucite (24 sets exist is my understanding) that were given to many of the astronauts and others of importance. Mine are ex-White and ex-Aldrin (he signed that one on the base) and were bought years ago. Only other two that I have seen are at the JSC in Houston and at Chris Kraft's house, also in Houston. Anyone know who else has these sets?
As for the Armstrong WSS signed pics, condition is everything and before bidding on ANY signed lithos, etc, always ask the auction houses to physically pull the item and have a representative examine them closely. In an auction last year there were three Armstrong WSS pics and all were described in the same exact fashion, but when I asked to have them closely examined, two had major defects and one was pristine. I bought the pristine one (and maybe I paid a premium) but I would rather have top quality. Just a word to the wise, especially for the novice collector.
One thing I really do not understand is why a Robbins that comes from astronaut XXXX's personal collection commands a premium is beyond me. Sure it is nice to know where it came from but a flown Robbins is a flown Robbins. Because astronaut XXXX has probably had it in a safe deposit box for 40 years make it so much more valuable? Again, to me, condition is more important than who owned it previously. They all went to space!
In a way it is like a flown flag. I would prefer a flag mounted on NASA paper from A-XX as opposed to one from an astronaut. With no disrespect, I would rather take NASA's word than that of any individual as U.S. flags, state flags, country flags, etc, etc., cost about $2 each at your local "flag store" depending on size. Something to ponder and I am not pointing any fingers, but human nature and greed can go hand in hand.
Sure wish Heritage wasn't in Texas as the 8.25% sales tax is a killer on top of the commissions...
Tallpaul Member
Posts: 153 From: Rocky Point, NY, USA Registered: Feb 2012
posted 04-22-2013 06:03 PM
quote:Originally posted by SkyMan1958: Here's a webpage of theirs that will given you more info about Flitelines.
Thank you for the link to the article about the Fliteline Medallions on the Heritage site.
I called them today to see if they had any records as to when and where Mr. Belasco purchased the medallion that I purchased. It was from an Aurora auction a few years back. I have most of their catalogs so later tonight I'll be doing some exploring.
SkyMan1958 Member
Posts: 867 From: CA. Registered: Jan 2011
posted 04-22-2013 11:14 PM
quote:Originally posted by Mercurypgm: Anyone know who else has these sets?
Several years ago Heritage sold a 10 piece lucite set owned by John Young.
quote:One thing I really do not understand is why a Robbins that comes from astronaut XXXX's personal collection commands a premium is beyond me.
I agree with you as to the ownership of flown Fliteline/Robbins being much lower down my list of how much I'm willing to pay for the piece, as opposed to the condition of the piece. I'd MUCH rather have a piece in good condition.
In CA. sales tax is by county. Heritage's facility is in L.A. county where the sales tax is 9%, so even though I live in a county with a lower sales tax than L.A., I have to pay 9% sales tax.
TallPaul, Congratulations on talking to Heritage about the provenance trail of your item. That was a VERY good move!!!
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 04-22-2013 11:31 PM
quote:Originally posted by Mercurypgm: One thing I really do not understand is why a Robbins that comes from astronaut XXXX's personal collection commands a premium is beyond me.
In general I would agree for flown medals (not so much for unflown ones) but the chain of ownership can add value if it adds to the story behind the medal.
Take, for example, a flown Apollo 17 Robbins from the collection of Joe Engle. Or a flown Apollo 13 medal from TK Mattingly's collection. Or a flown STS-133 Robbins from Tim Kopra's collection. Each of these examples would, in my opinion, enhance the value of the medal over others as the astronauts have a connection to the mission.
Similarly, a flown Apollo 7 Robbins medal from Walt Cunningham's collection would be prized because he originated the idea for the medals with that mission.
spaced out Member
Posts: 3110 From: Paris, France Registered: Aug 2003
posted 04-23-2013 06:59 AM
Incidentally, on the Fliteline page of my Space Flown Artifacts site, the annex attempts to list all examples sold at auction but I have not made a serious attempt to identify duplicates.
For example, those medallions sold in the Heritage auction which were not identified as coming direct from the collection of an astronaut were very likely already sold at least once at auction. It would be nice to spot those matches and tie the data together but I don't really have the time to do this.
However, I would hope that maybe some of the buyers of these medallions might be interested in doing so, so if you do spot matches like this please let me know so that I can update the annex accordingly.
Tallpaul Member
Posts: 153 From: Rocky Point, NY, USA Registered: Feb 2012
posted 04-23-2013 09:47 AM
It was reported to me that the medallion that I purchased, lot #40065, had originally been purchased from an Aurora auction where it was listed as lot 240 A.
spaced out Member
Posts: 3110 From: Paris, France Registered: Aug 2003
posted 04-23-2013 12:51 PM
quote:Originally posted by Tallpaul: It was reported to me that the medallion that I purchased, lot #40065, had originally been purchased from an Aurora auction where it was listed as lot 240 A.
Thanks, yes that's a match for the original Aurora lot here. I will combine the entries in my annex when I have some time.
lunareagle Member
Posts: 587 From: Michigan Registered: Nov 1999
posted 04-25-2013 01:14 PM
Still a few great lots up for sale at the minimum prices on ha.com
posted 03-26-2013 09:30 AM
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