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Author
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Topic: Regency-Superior October 2008
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Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-26-2008 11:09 PM
   
Regency-Superior release Regency-Superior Conducts Space Public AuctonRegency-Superior will conduct a Space Public Auction at their gallery in Beverly Hills, California on Friday, October 10th beginning at 10am (Pacific Time). This auction features almost 1,000 lots of Space and Aviation collectibles with items flown to and used on the Moon during the Apollo program, flown space parts of Mercury, Gemini, Apollo and Shuttle spacecraft, and much more. From early this century we note a completely hand-written (and signed in five places) article by Konstantin Tsiolkovsky, the “Father” of Russian rocket science (lot #681). There are also several publications in English, German, French, and Russian relating to Space Science & Astronomy from both the 19th & 20th Centuries. An interesting early artifact in the sale is an actual Gyroscope from a 1940s German V-2 rocket (lot #6). More recent memorabilia includes: pieces of flown heatshield from many of the Gemini and Apollo flights; bits and pieces of Mercury, Gemini, Apollo, Skylab, ASTP & the Shuttle are also present throughout the sale. Memorabilia carried by Astronauts or Cosmonauts is also present including flags and patches carried in space or to the Moon on many missions. See lot #120 for a group of four Apollo mission patches carried to the Moon on their respective missions, and lot #285 for a flag and mission patch carried aboard the Apollo 13 mission to the Moon. A flown to the Moon LM Lunar Surface Checklist page with detailed descriptive letter of authenticity by Buzz Aldrin is another key item (lot #191) as is a flown to the Moon Beta Cloth patch from the same mission (lot #192). Non-flown items include important precision contractor models of spacecraft, satellites and other space hardware. Key among these is a beautiful Official NASA model of Vanguard I (lot #857) and a magnificent large scale model of a Saturn thruster (lot #858). Among Russian models is a striking Vostok model (lot #882). Also being offered are commemorative items like patches, medallions including many flown and unflown Robbins medallions from Apollo, Skylab & Shuttle missions, and a complete flown set of Gemini Flite-Line medallions. One of the finest autograph holdings of Astronauts and others involved in the space program is also in this sale. We note many genuine signed pieces by Neil Armstrong (lots #204-212), Yuri Gagarin (lots #667, 762-782), and the late Apollo 1 crew member Roger Chaffee (lot #126), many more. Complete crew signed photos and covers are spread throughout the sale with many better ones such as Apollo 1 (lot #128), Apollo 11 (lots #216-237), and a wonderful complete set of STS-51L single signed photos (lot #511). Insurance covers are also noted. The auction will have a live bidding floor and simulcast bidding on eBay Live Auctions. Viewing of the lots is available beginning Wednesday, October 8th at Regency-Superior’s gallery at 9478 W. Olympic Blvd, 2nd Floor, Beverly Hills, CA 90212. Those who would like detailed lot information may contact the gallery at (310) 553-5475. The entire auction is available online for viewing and bidding, and includes full lot descriptions, estimates, color photographs and opening bids. A full color catalog is available to all bidders by calling toll-free 1-800-782-0066. |
GerryM
Member Posts: 244
From: Glenside PA
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 08-26-2008 11:58 PM
What a shame that the "prize" piece in the autograph section is bad (Lot #399). Looks like someone tried to add John Young to the moonwalker signed litho and did a terrible job.Gerry Montague
www.astronautarchives.com
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gliderpilotuk
Member Posts: 3398
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 08-27-2008 02:47 AM
I'd like to see a close-up of the unusually small Armstrong as well.Paul |
Bob M
Member Posts: 1746
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 08-27-2008 07:28 AM
To R-S's credit, they at least acknowledged that the Young in Lot 399 may be questionable. This current R-S auction will surely result in a good many comments here, especially concerning many of the large number of their Apollo 11 crew signed items. Bob Mc. |
Michael Davis
Member Posts: 528
From: Houston, Texas
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 08-30-2008 10:19 AM
I have some doubts about the accuracy of the listing for item 148 (Apollo 8 Flown Mission Patch). I owned an item identical to this one a few years back. It might even be the same one that I had. I bought it assuming that the patch was flown. I think I contacted NovaSpace to ask for documentation since it was framed by them (they did not sell it to me, that was from a well know dealer). It was pointed out to me that it was the parchment copy of the Treaty on Space that had flown, not the patch. The patch was judged to be modern and not circa 1968. If you notice, the presentation doesn’t actually say what flew. The crew autopens means it came from NASA, so I was comfortable with the origin of the presentation, but not with the patch having been the flown item.It may be a good item, but I think the buyer should be careful to understand just what he is getting.
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andrewcli
Member Posts: 328
From: La Jolla, CA, USA
Registered: Jul 2007
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posted 08-30-2008 12:43 PM
Actually the patch is vintage. This is an example of the "segmented" ocean patch.
You can see this on Chris' website. Additionally this type of patch was seen on Lovell's flight jacket on Jacques' website.It's easily confused with other AB Apollo 8 patches. This type of patch has been flown. Examples of these flown patches were sold on recent Heritage's auctions. BTW, I do have a problem with lot #162. They look like autopens to me, especially Ander's signature. |
spaced out
Member Posts: 3110
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 08-30-2008 12:43 PM
It's true that either item could be flown but the patch looks to me to be the vintage type flown on Apollo 8. A better scan would help but it looks right from the image. |
Michael Davis
Member Posts: 528
From: Houston, Texas
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 08-30-2008 01:14 PM
adrewcli and spaced out - Thanks for the additional information. I want to be clear, I don't doubt that "something" flew. I just got stressed by not knowing whether it was the patch or the treaty. I later sold the item as a "Treaty Flown" presentation since that was the best information I had and I could not prove that the patch was flown. |
andrewcli
Member Posts: 328
From: La Jolla, CA, USA
Registered: Jul 2007
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posted 08-30-2008 01:40 PM
Looking at the previous Heritage auctions, signed flown Apollo 8 patch with the flag presentations sold more that $9k. Flown patches with historical significance like 1st to the moon would bring in a lot, but not as much as the presentations. I would think that a flown treaty with autopens would bring in less. On the other hand, an unflown Apollo 8 patch recently sold in Goldberg's auction, with other signed papers with the Apollo 8 medallion, went for about $550.Just my 2 cents.
Andrew |
Aztecdoug
Member Posts: 1405
From: Huntington Beach
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted 09-03-2008 08:59 AM
FYI I received my catalog in the mail yesterday for this auction. Five weeks before the auction to boot! I am going to go request my time off from work today so I can attend the auction.Without commenting on the quality of sigs (I am no expert) I will say there is a lot of great looking stuff front to back. ------------------
Kind Regards Douglas Henry Enjoy yourself and have fun.... it is only a hobby!
http://home.earthlink.net/~aztecdoug/ |
gliderpilotuk
Member Posts: 3398
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 09-03-2008 12:52 PM
Mine arrived here in London today.Excellent to get the catalogue out >1month before the auction. Nice to have more than 2 days to peruse it! Paul |
Wings4Flight
Member Posts: 89
From: Auburn, AL, USA
Registered: Dec 2007
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posted 09-03-2008 07:40 PM
Has anyone else noticed the low expected sale price on the Apollo Navy to the Moon print, and the Naval Aviation in Space print? If I recall correctly one of the Apollo prints sold just a few months ago at auction for something like $7500 with buyers fees, why such a low expected sale price?------------------
Aaron M. Lyon
www.wings4flight.com |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 2915
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 09-03-2008 08:06 PM
Andrew--Yes, certainly Lot #162 contains all crew autopens. A few brief obsevations if anyone doesn't mind (once again--my own opinions): With Lot #120, I've never seen nor heard of that particular patch for Apollo 11 as being flown on the lunar mission. The Apollo 1 tragedy cover depicted as Lot #132 has an estimated value of $500-750! The "Fire in the Spacecraft" cachet cover from the Cape wasn't an original from that period, but was added 25 years later. Schirra's signature, as noted, on Lot #140 is indeed a questionable autograph--in my opinion--either a secretarial or forgery attempt. Anders with his Apollo 8 crewmates (Lot #159) needs a closer look; can't see too well, but a possible autopen. More info is needed on the Young signed Apollo 10 recovery cover (#186). And while many Armstrong and Apollo 11 items appear to be genuine, in my opinion, there are questionable lots. Take for instance Lot #218--a terrible Armstrong on the crew pic, and I don't like the first moonwalker on Lot #222, among a few others.
Even the Aldrin and Collins look bad on Lot #229. Some Apollo 13 and 16 material--not Mattingly vintage signatures on a couple lots; and while I haven't had much time to examine further lots, there is a problem with some of the crew sigs (that I can see clearly) with Lot #502 and #501 has a Walker autopen. One of the "Holy Grails" as depicted in Lot #399 that Gerry M. and Bob McL. referred to does indeed raise questions, especially with the Young. It appears to have no solid provenance. |
p.kentzinger
Member Posts: 95
From: Kienheim, France
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 09-04-2008 11:38 AM
Any opinion about lot #224 A-11 crew litho signed by Neil and Buzz? |
Bob M
Member Posts: 1746
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 09-04-2008 03:06 PM
Ken's opinions are accurate and appreciated, and after my quick run-thru, it looks like the folks at Regency-Superior did a mostly good job with the autographs they accepted for their current auction. They have a lot of good Apollo 11 and Armstrong autographs, with just a few slip-ups, such as Lot 218, and Lot 229, with a good Armstrong, but weird Aldrin. Autopens are scattered here and there, as lot 470, an ALT photo, has Engle and Truly autopens; lot 500, an STS-41C, has a T.J. Hart autopen; and lot 501, a 41D litho, has a Charles Walker autopen. Also lot 502, another 41D, has very atypical crew signatures and a bigger scan would be helpful. And to continue a long space auction house tradition, lot 656 is a crew photo with signatures said to be of the doomed Soyuz 11 crew. When Superior Stamp and Coin first presented these back in the mid-'90's, they sold for around $5,000, but can now can be bought cheaply on eBay, and this one comes with a "Russian COA" and is sold "AS-IS." Bob Mc. |
Tykeanaut
Member Posts: 2212
From: Worcestershire, England, UK.
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 09-05-2008 03:43 AM
Yes, it was nice to receive a catalogue through the post to the U.K.A better looking auction than the last offering. However as you say there are some questionable autographs. Even a relative novice like myself picked out the awful Armstrong on Lot 218. If you're going to pay 'big bucks' it would be nice to have a genuine one! |
leslie
Member Posts: 231
From: Surrey, England
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 09-05-2008 06:15 AM
In my opinion the Aldrin signatures on lots 216 and 217 are questionable.They look to have been signed by the same hand but not Buzz's. I am not an expert but have over 100 Buzz signatures, all signed in my presence or for me by reputable and unquestionable agents.... ------------------
Leslie Cantwell |
Bob M
Member Posts: 1746
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 09-05-2008 07:10 AM
Lot 216 and 217 are Apollo 11 Insurance covers (Dow-Unicover and mission emblem) and are certainly authentic in every way. They, of course, were signed shortly before the Apollo 11 launch in 1969, so perhaps that would account for the Buzz Aldrin autographs appearing somewhat different than more recent examples. BMc |
MrSpace86
Member Posts: 1618
From: Gardner, KS, USA
Registered: Feb 2003
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posted 09-05-2008 08:23 AM
quote:
Originally posted by leslie:
I am not an expert but have over 100 Buzz signatures, all signed in my presence or for me by reputable and unquestionable agents...
Wow, and I thought I had plenty by having two books and two signed photos!!As for the auction itself, I have never participated in something like this (eBay doesn't count) and am interested in this auction. Is it a lot like eBay where I can just go in and bid or what? I see there is a 17% premium... So for example: If I win an item at $100, I add $17 plus whatever shipping is? Thanks. -R |
capoetc
Member Posts: 2169
From: McKinney TX (USA)
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 09-05-2008 08:47 AM
quote:
Originally posted by MrSpace86:
So for example: If I win an item at $100, I add $17 plus whatever shipping is?
Make sure you register for the auction in advance. I'm not sure if this auction will also be a live auction on e-Bay, but if so the fee is higher if you win the auction that way. I usually place my max bids in advance directly through Regency-Superior. You can even give special instructions, such as "if necessary, for Lot XXX only, increase my bid by up to 30%...". I have had times when I placed a bid and then the live e-Bay bidding went above my max -- and then I was surprised to find out that I won the lot! I'm not sure why that is, but I suspect a bid must have been thrown out or the bidder backed out. Good luck! ------------------
John Capobianco
Camden DE |
capoetc
Member Posts: 2169
From: McKinney TX (USA)
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 09-05-2008 08:52 AM
quote:
Originally posted by leslie:
I am not an expert but have over 100 Buzz signatures, all signed in my presence or for me by reputable and unquestionable agents...
Trying to horde all the Buzz signatures, huh?Well, I have something that is REALLY rare... an UNSIGNED copy of Men From Earth, 1st edition, 1st printing!  ------------------
John Capobianco
Camden DE |
lm5eagle
Member Posts: 429
From:
Registered: Jul 2007
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posted 09-05-2008 09:09 AM
RE: Lots 216, 217, I really couldn't see anything wrong with them.Thanks Bob Mc for restoring faith in my judgment. YOU are always reliable. |
Lifeexplorer
New Member Posts:
From:
Registered:
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posted 09-05-2008 10:11 AM
quote:
Originally posted by leslie:
I am not an expert but have over 100 Buzz signatures, all signed in my presence or for me by reputable and unquestionable agents...
It just shows that number is no substitute for expertise!When I hear these kinds of numbers I think surely we must be getting to the point where there are so many Buzz signed items out there that their resale value is starting to diminish? |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 2915
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 09-05-2008 12:34 PM
For Leslie and Bob--Lot #216-17 are indeed, for the most part, crew-signed insurance covers as Bob stated. Please rest assured, Leslie, that the Aldrin autographs are authentic in every aspect. I have always wondered, however, if some or even most of the Dow and crew emblem cachet covers were not signed until after the crew returned from their epic moon voyage! Most of the signatures on 2 of the 3 cachet cover varieties appear to be of a "post-mission" period, therefore, was it possible that unsigned crew family-owned Dow/NASA cachet covers were perhaps signed during the crew isolation or quarantine period during their 3-week stay at the LRL? Just a thought as all of the MSCSC-cachet covers had pre-launch signed versions, especially those from Aldrin and Collins. Or, perhaps, the crew did sign all 3 cachet versions prior to their moon-bound launch as they received the Dow/NASA printed covers shortly before their liftoff. The MSCSC-cachets were the first covers printed for the mission that the crew had obtained before the other 2 versions were available to them.
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capoetc
Member Posts: 2169
From: McKinney TX (USA)
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 09-06-2008 09:28 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Lifeexplorer:
When I hear these kinds of numbers I think surely we must be getting to the point where there are so many Buzz signed items out there that their resale value is starting to diminish?
I don't know whether that is the case, particularly considering that Aldrin was on the first crew to land on the moon.Since many (most?) space program collectors already have at least one Aldrin autograph in their collections, it would seem that the reason one would pay $150-300 for his autograph is more to be able to spend a few minutes with a man who was on the first crew to walk on the moon (how cool is that? ), not just to get autograph #101 in the collection. ------------------
John Capobianco
Camden DE |
gliderpilotuk
Member Posts: 3398
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 09-06-2008 04:24 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Havekotte:
Anders with his Apollo 8 crewmates (Lot #159) needs a closer look; can't see too well, but a possible autopen.
Make that Lot #158.
Lot #159 is AOK. Anders on Lot #154 definitely requires closer scrutiny, but could well be one of his fool-the-dealer variations. Paul |
leslie
Member Posts: 231
From: Surrey, England
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 09-08-2008 04:40 AM
I do not see how numbers are relevant in terms of value. My collection is based not on numbers but of unique and lengthy inscriptions, none are personalised. They are also of large format and the collection was put together with the help of many experts which, on occasion, was required in order to persuade Buzz to write inscriptions of relatively great length. For example, one inscription (mission quote) is 35 words long, and these words, were selected in an attempt to humanise the endeavours shown on the images thus conveying the true pioneering spirit of those particular Gemini and Apollo missions. Devalueing prices? Hardly, as I believe cost is irrelevant when attempting to put together a collection of images that conveys to the viewer, the remarkable and true spirit of American Space exploration. Historical words do not diminish images but, in my opinion, add another quality to create something that's more than the sum of two parts. Any serious collector will know that it is quality and not quantity of an article that counts. I thank Ken for his comments about the two lots in question. ------------------
Leslie Cantwell |
leslie
Member Posts: 231
From: Surrey, England
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 09-08-2008 05:00 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Lifeexplorer:
It just goes to show that number is no substitute for expertise
Perhaps Life Explorer would like to re-read my post which clearly states I do not profess to be an expert. I can however, read.------------------
Leslie Cantwell |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 09-08-2008 03:33 PM
quote:
Originally posted by leslie:
Any serious collector will know that it is quality and not quantity of an article that counts.
Absolutely. If you compiled a collection of unique and interesting signed images which reflect YOUR passion and fulfilled your personal desires for collecting, then nobody can really fault you for doing what makes you happy (even if one doesn't share the same level of passion for that particular astronaut). But Life Explorer also makes a good point about the number of Aldrin signatures in the marketplace. It's quite possible that someday the number of signatures in the marketplace will exceed the demand. Buzz will always find willing buyers for his signature at in-person signings, because people want to meet Buzz, get a personalization, or have a unique item signed (or crew photo completed). The secondary market is another story. While it's possible there will always be a demand for Buzz's signature that will continue long after Buzz is gone, it's also possible that the demand for his signature will cool off one day and people will be left holding large quantities of signatures (that can only be sold for a fraction of what was paid to obtain them). While that doesn't appear to be a concern to you, Leslie, it should be a concern for others who collect with future re-sale in mind. The first rule for collectors still holds true: collect what you like. If those items are worth a lot in the future, consider yourself lucky. If they are not worth a lot, then at least you have something you like. |
mikeh
Member Posts: 147
From:
Registered: Feb 2008
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posted 09-08-2008 10:37 PM
Any opinions please on the following lots: 204, 224, 225, 233? Thanks. |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 09-09-2008 10:28 AM
quote:
Originally posted by mikeh:
Any opinions please on the following lots: 204, 224, 225, 233? Thanks.
204: likely good 224: Aldrin appears good. Armstrong could be good too, but a larger scan is needed. 225: I don't like this Armstrong at all. It has characteristics that are very close to some of the German forgeries in circulation. It is also lacking the natural flow of a genuine signature, looking almost drawn. The Collins and Aldrin are likely real, but that's almost irrelevant if the Armstrong is fake. 233: The Aldrin looks fine. It's too hard to see the Armstrong to make a judgment call. These are my opinions only. It wouldn't hurt to seek another opinion or two before bidding. Mark
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Bob M
Member Posts: 1746
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 09-09-2008 12:56 PM
I agree with and support Mark's opinions on these four lots - Bob Mc. |
Michael
Member Posts: 309
From: Brooklyn New York
Registered: Jun 2002
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posted 09-09-2008 03:59 PM
I looked at Lot 158 and I compared it to all the Bill Anders autopens from the Edge of Darkness and it looks to be authentic... but I do need a second opinion... what does everybody else think?Just asking
Mike |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 09-09-2008 05:05 PM
I agree the Anders on Lot 158 isn't likely an autopen, unless it's a very uncommon pattern not all that well known among collectors.However, one shouldn't rule out the possibility of it being a forgery or secreterial signature. Unfortunately, it's hard to say much more about the signature at the resolution of the provided scan. Barring a better scan, any history of the item could perhaps lend credibility to it's authenticity. |
mikeh
Member Posts: 147
From:
Registered: Feb 2008
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posted 09-09-2008 08:31 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Bob M:
I agree with and support Mark's opinions on these four lots - Bob Mc.
Mark and Bob, Thanks very much for the quick reply. Most appreciated. I've asked for close-ups of 224, 233 and will post if I get them. Too bad about 225. That is actually my favorite. What a shame. - m
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mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 09-09-2008 09:14 PM
quote:
Originally posted by mikeh:
Mark and Bob, Thanks very much for the quick reply. Most appreciated. I've asked for close-ups of 224, 233 and will post if I get them. Too bad about 225. That is actually my favorite. What a shame. - m
If they send you close-ups, ask for a close-up of 225 as well. It never hurts to re-examine it, especially up close. |
Tykeanaut
Member Posts: 2212
From: Worcestershire, England, UK.
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 09-12-2008 03:40 AM
quote:
Originally posted by p.kentzinger:
Any opinion about lot #224 A-11 crew litho signed by Neil and Buzz?
I've only got limited experience, but this looks o.k to me. I think the inscription was written by Aldrin. I've also spotted a couple more items dedicated to the same person so it looks like a small collection was submitted for the auction. |
Tykeanaut
Member Posts: 2212
From: Worcestershire, England, UK.
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 09-12-2008 04:17 AM
One thing that does puzzle me. I have read that Neil Armstrong has never signed anything that includes his famous quote or a FDC just with his signature on it. Yet these kind of items do appear from time to time in various auctions.Any comments? |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 09-12-2008 01:37 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Tykeanaut:
One thing that does puzzle me. I have read that Neil Armstrong has never signed anything that includes his famous quote or a FDC just with his signature on it. Yet these kind of items do appear from time to time in various auctions.
Neil claims to have never written out his famous quote as part of an autograph. There is one particular example out there that seems to refute that statement. Nevertheless, Neil sticks to his claim. Neil has signed items, however, that already had the famous quote printed on them. He has also signed covers with just his signature (and no insriptions or personalizations). If anything, it seems as if his signatures on covers were quite often unpersonalized. |
spaceflori
Member Posts: 1499
From: Germany
Registered: May 2000
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posted 09-13-2008 12:34 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Tykeanaut:
I have read that Neil Armstrong has never signed anything that includes his famous quote or a FDC just with his signature on it.
Pretty often his famous quote was added later to a 3x5 card or cover or any other document - by typewriter or today by a laserprinter.Florian ------------------
Flown artifacts, autographs and more !
www.spaceflori.com |
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