posted 02-17-2005 10:31 AM               

Its obvious that the two people who outbid me registered with a sniping web site. There's probably a number of cS members who are guilty of this and some have advised me to register myself. IMHO if you can't be online to bid in the last minutes of the auction and you've not already registered your bid with eBay then these underhand bids should not be aloud.

posted 02-17-2005 12:09 PM               

I do not have time to get up in the middle of the night and hit refresh refresh refresh refresh refresh refresh refresh refresh, etc etc and then put in a snipe with 4 seconds to go when I can have a program do it for me. What's the difference?

For me personally it has nothing to do with "gotcha" or being a "hardened" eBayer. It's like those Ronco infomercials... Set it, and Forget it. It saves me time and effort that I'd rather spend elsewhere.

posted 02-17-2005 12:37 PM               

What I am asking is what would be the difference between leaving a high bid at e-bay or a high bid at a sniping webpage?

posted 02-17-2005 01:46 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Scott:
I do not have time to get up in the middle of the night and hit refresh refresh refresh refresh refresh refresh refresh refresh, etc etc and then put in a snipe with 4 seconds to go when I can have a program do it for me. What's the difference?

---

The difference is that eBay is supposed to be an auction web site. Auction's generaly have individuals placing bids which most of the time results in the prospective buyers having at least a fighting chance to see who's prepared to bid the highest. With folks that snipe its nigh on impossible for me to compete.

Astro-Auction.com protects bidders from snipers by automatically extending the auction. No auction will close within less than 10 minutes since the last bid.
If you are outbid on any auction, you will receive an email notice within moments of the new bid. Even if the auction is scheduled to close in seconds, you will have several minutes to decide wheter to raise your bid.

More power to Kim and Astro-Auction, a pity eBay wouldn't take a leaf out of Kim's book!

- Derek

posted 02-18-2005 11:13 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by machbusterman:
Auction's generaly have individuals placing bids which most of the time results in the prospective buyers having at least a fighting chance to see who's prepared to bid the highest. With folks that snipe its nigh on impossible for me to compete.
- Derek

---

Derek,
I'm with Scott on this one and am a proud user of esnipe. It offers many benefits, including the reassurance that when an auction ends at 03:00 GMT I don't have to get out of bed to make sure no-one has placed a bid in the last 3 hours. NO auction site provides this sort of protection and I have lost items on A-A because they ended in the early hours GMT, so whilst the A-A system is good, it certainly doesn't help when the time zones are against you.

Sniping is also, "fire & forget", so if I go away on business I don't need to worry about it. At the end of the day a bidder who loses to a snipe bid has generally shown that they are not prepared to strike a similar maximum price. Don't forget: a sniper can be outsniped by a higher bid, so should the losing sniper complain?? Equally, set yourself a realistic max. bid and the sniper won't beat you!

There are 2 ways to look at auctions: (1) you either want to get something as cheaply as possible (in which case you take the risk of being outbid), OR (2) you look at the item objectively and set a maximum bid based on market worth, affordability, desirability etc. Your "fighting chance" is determined solely by the setting of a maximum bid, assuming you are not prepared to employ the freely available sniping tools.

Finally, how do you feel about ebay live auctions? If a bidder in the auction room matches your live internet bid (but goes no higher), he wins, because it is ASSUMED that by being present he is willing and capable of going higher. Is THAT fair?

We agree on most things, so I'm just offering friendly advice: it's a competitive world - get yourself an esnipe account. Being constantly outbid by dealers convinced me years ago!!

Paul Bramley

posted 02-18-2005 01:07 PM               

Then the opposite point is taken against the non-snipers that they could just bid the highest amount that they want to pay and not worry about a sniper that wants to pay more.

Why do you need to snipe, when you could just bid the highest amount you want to pay on day 1 of the auction? You can fire and forget on day 1 or 2 etc... why do you have to stay up intil 3 in the morning waiting for the last 10 seconds to bid?

After all, you either have a limit you will bid, or you don't.

The argument that says you need to bid via snipe so you don't have to watch the auction close in person, for whatever reason, is illogical for eBay. In fact, that is an advantage of eBay over a live auction. You don't have to be there for the close.

------------------
Kind Regards

Douglas Henry

posted 02-18-2005 02:25 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aztecdoug:
Why do you need to snipe, when you could just bid the highest amount you want to pay on day 1 of the auction? You can fire and forget on day 1 or 2 etc... why do you have to stay up intil 3 in the morning waiting for the last 10 seconds to bid?

After all, you either have a limit you will bid, or you don't.

The argument that says you need to bid via snipe so you don't have to watch the auction close in person, for whatever reason, is illogical for eBay. In fact, that is an advantage of eBay over a live auction. You don't have to be there for the close.

---

Doug, your comments make perfect sense to me. As Steve Zarelli mentioned in another list, some people actually search on items being bid on by a particular user (or users) as they see it as a sign of their approval and authenticity.

Sadly it looks as though most people prefer now to bid at the last minute. I used to put in my opening max bid at the value I'd LIKE to get the item for and when I get outbid I re-assess the situation and decide whether to up my bid or not. I still prefer this way of bidding/using eBay than playing the sniping game.

Because of the way I was outbid on the last few items by my good friend Mr. Steffen Leithold I now feel that I am being targeted so if I want to win something on eBay I'll need to use the sniping tool. Something I did not think I would ever have to consider.

I still can't get it out of my head that this guy contacted me a few times and asked me to help him. I DID help him... my kindness and generosity has been thrown back completely in my face. I'll now be wary when it comes to helping people that I do not know.

Regards, Derek

posted 02-19-2005 10:53 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aztecdoug:
The argument that says you need to bid via snipe so you don't have to watch the auction close in person, for whatever reason, is illogical for eBay.

---

Okay, okay, I'm just a nasty person who wants to win particular items <LOL>.

Let's hear, then, the (logical) arguments for NOT using sniping. References to morals, ethics and other such subjective opinions aside, I'd be amazed if you can present any. And I for one, won't be pressured by other people's opinions of how I choose to trade.
If ANYONE beats me with a snipe I regard that as fair game - no matter how well-known the bidder is to me.

Paul Bramley

posted 02-19-2005 12:04 PM               

It's my opinion that any rule that extends an auction does so solely with the seller in mind and the auction house (and that's just as okay as sniping). By sniping in the final seconds and placing my highest bid then, I find that it tends to keep the price down. When people bid early there is sometimes a tendency to bid with emotion, often going over what you had as your top bid price.

Snipe on!!
Dan

posted 02-19-2005 12:07 PM               

I still think that given how helpful I had been to this individual after his first snipe the 2nd was over-stepping the mark a little.

Anyway, I am now a fully fledged registered "sniper". The way I see it is if others are using these tools to bid/win then I may as well do the same and give myself the same fighting chance as everyone else. I'd prefer not to have to go down that route but if there are people who have been checking out what I am bidding on this may help to keep me stealthy

Regards, Derek

posted 02-19-2005 12:26 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by gliderpilotuk:
References to morals, ethics and other such subjective opinions aside, I'd be amazed if you can present any.
Paul Bramley

---

I simply saw a logical hole in the argument for sniping. I had not brought morals or ethics into play.

Is there a reason that morals and ethics should be set aside? There was another thread recently on which astronaut was the best gentleman. Would a gentleman be bound by morals and ethics? Should astronauts behave better than eBay shoppers, if indeed ethics play a role in sniping?

Should some career choices require ethics, and others not? I could understand that some careers require ethics, but I am curious which ones would consider ethics a liability. Should we be ethical when we go to church, but set ethics aside when we bid on eBay, or even drive our car in traffic?

In the movie the Big Chill there was a line about how people need a few rationalizations to get through the day.

So far, the only logical argument I have heard that supports sniping on eBay is that some people glom onto items when a so called expert has already made a bid. Thus having legitimized the item with their seal of approval by making a bid. So, if people had lass obvious eBay IDs, perhaps the issue of sniping is resolved?

I am not trying to start fight at all; I just think it makes for an interesting debate. I think that obviously people feel very passionately about sniping and I am curious why it is so emotional? What is it about sniping that does causes people to become so charged up either pro or con?

I personally don’t snipe, and frankly I have lost interest in eBay over the past few years. I win about one item a year and I am surprised when I do.

------------------
Kind Regards

Douglas Henry

posted 02-21-2005 05:12 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by machbusterman:
I was high-bidder on this auction http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6511153534 and I refreshed at 20 seconds and was still high-bidder. I hit re-fresh again at 5 seconds to go and when it refreshed I was outbid... TWICE!!

Its obvious that the two people who outbid me registered with a sniping web site. There's probably a number of cS members who are guilty of this and some have advised me to register myself. IMHO if you can't be online to bid in the last minutes of the auction and you've not already registered your bid with eBay then these underhand bids should not be aloud.

A very p***ed off Derek!

---

Hello machbusterman,

I am one (spacehero) of these two bidders who bid higher than you did in this auction and I was outbidded here too. You told me a sniper in your first posting. I only placed my bid very late as always (6 seconds before the end of this auction) but I did it LIVE!!!

When I was bidding live on this and some other items of the buyer "seanspace" in this same session I was always looking on my exact working clock when I clicked to send my bid(s) in the right moment which takes only a second to transmit it by using a fast internet connection.

In all these auctions (except one) I was outbidded aswell because I had not the highest bid and not because I was NOT using sniper technology.

I always place my bids near (few seconds) the end of the auction but all my bids are different in the remaining time to the end because they are all made LIVE and by hand.

The only hint for snipers is that all their bids are placed at the same remaining time to the end of the auctions which is fixed in their used software. Maybe this can vary in 1 second up or down depending on the traffic.

I have never used sniper software or sniper webites (what's that?), I did NOT use it in this auction and I will never use it at any time. And because I am bidding only live and at the end of auctions I have to stand up (in Germany/ Europe) sometimes in the middle of the night to bid on items which are listed in the far U.S.

I hate such sniping bidders aswell but this will not turn me into a sniper aswell. I "fight" against them with other allowed "weapons".

In2space/spacehero

posted 03-23-2005 03:37 AM               

In a real auction, the lot is called up at any moment (and it can be in the morning and it can be in the afternoon). One can enter a written bid, and if someone in the auction room offers more, then you have no chance even to better the bid. You can hire a proxy to bid for you, but he too will have a maximum price defined by you which he will not go over unless you authorize him so.

I have yet to meet an auction client who complains about the date set by the auctionneer because "I have another appointment". That is your problem, not the auctioneer's, and certainly not the other bidders problem.

Whether you bid in person, whether you bid in writing, whether you decide to use a proxy, whether you use an electronic device and which (may it be a sniper service or a telephone) is your choice. It's like whining about that you cannot take part in an Internet auction because you have no Internet access. Discrimination! Unfair!

Machbusterman did not enter high enough a bid, and he was outbid by somebody else before the auction ended. He could have entered a higher maximum bid 3 seconds before the auction ended, but he chose not too. Too bad for him, but nothing to whine about.

Perhaps Machbusterman should only enter bids for auctions that end within his lunch hour?

posted 03-23-2005 04:30 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by eurospace:
Sorry for being naive, but in auctions the best bid gets the lot and the sale isn't over until the sale is over. How much the bidder bids and how and when he enters his bid is entirely at bidders discretion.

In a real auction, the lot is called up at any moment (and it can be in the morning and it can be in the afternoon). One can enter a written bid, and if someone in the auction room offers more, then you have no chance even to better the bid. You can hire a proxy to bid for you, but he too will have a maximum price defined by you which he will not go over unless you authorize him so.

I have yet to meet an auction client who complains about the date set by the auctionneer because "I have another appointment". That is your problem, not the auctioneer's, and certainly not the other bidders problem.

Whether you bid in person, whether you bid in writing, whether you decide to use a proxy, whether you use an electronic device and which (may it be a sniper service or a telephone) is your choice. It's like whining about that you cannot take part in an Internet auction because you have no Internet access. Discrimination! Unfair!

Machbusterman did not enter high enough a bid, and he was outbid by somebody else before the auction ended. He could have entered a higher maximum bid 3 seconds before the auction ended, but he chose not too. Too bad for him, but nothing to whine about.

Perhaps Machbusterman should only enter bids for auctions that end within his lunch hour?

---

here, here! good for you Eurospace...

Life is not fair...deal with it...

Ebay has some rules....Auction ends at a certain time....highest bidder wins...

this items are for sale, they go to the highest bidder, not the most deserving, or the one that wants it the most, to the one who pays, there really is not a debate here, there is no morality here, it is a open market, not anything more.....why expect a dog to do math?? why expect ebay to be a morality contest, it is a SALE...

as for morals, you owe In2space a appology for the accusations...he did not use a program, an did nothing wrong, he bid against you, you do not have dibs, dibs is for the highest bidder

the whole thing is for fun, have some... ;-)

posted 03-23-2005 07:27 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by eurospace:

Machbusterman did not enter high enough a bid, and he was outbid by somebody else before the auction ended. He could have entered a higher maximum bid 3 seconds before the auction ended, but he chose not too. Too bad for him, but nothing to whine about.

Perhaps Machbusterman should only enter bids for auctions that end within his lunch hour?

---

Jurgen,

This is an old thread... clearly you have been emailed and wished to take the bait.

I'll bid when I like... I don't appreciate being told what to do by you.... and I haven't "whined" about this subject for a month. If someone beats me in an auction.... fair enough.

Both of you leave me alone.

posted 03-23-2005 11:02 AM            

We, and many other auctions (like overstock.com) have a system whereby any last-second bids only extend the auction until bidding ceases.