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Author
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Topic: [Discuss] NASA contracts for commercial crew
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Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 47486
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-16-2014 08:31 AM
   
Editor's note: To keep the topic CCtCap: NASA selects commercial crew providers focused on status updates, feedback and opinions are directed to this thread. Please use this topic to discuss NASA's selection of commercial crew partners. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 47486
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-16-2014 03:12 PM
The Boeing Company's CST-100 and Space Exploration Technologies' (SpaceX) Dragon were selected as NASA's commercial crew partners. "Today, with the selection of Boeing and SpaceX to be the first American companies to launch our astronauts to the International Space Station, NASA has set the stage for what promises to be the most ambitious and exciting chapter in the history of human spaceflight." — NASA Administrator Charles Bolden Under the terms of their contracts, Boeing will receive $4.2 billion and SpaceX $2.6 billion to accomplish the same five milestones leading to a crewed flight test to the International Space Station. |
SkyMan1958
Member Posts: 1130
From: CA.
Registered: Jan 2011
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posted 09-16-2014 03:49 PM
It bothers me that Boeing gets $4.2 billion and SpaceX "only" gets $2.6 billion. |
Headshot
Member Posts: 1033
From: Vancouver, WA, USA
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 09-16-2014 04:04 PM
Thank goodness the Dragon and the CST-100 use different launch vehicles. NASA's selection will not leave the U.S. vulnerable to a single-point failure issue where a problem with a launch vehicle could ground both manned crew vehicles. |
garymilgrom
Member Posts: 2064
From: Atlanta, GA
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 09-16-2014 04:04 PM
"Only 2.6 Billion"? I think the split is fair and in line with the achievements and designs shown by each company. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 47486
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-16-2014 04:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by SkyMan1958:
It bothers me that Boeing gets $4.2 billion and SpaceX "only" gets $2.6 billion.
According to NASA, Boeing and SpaceX each received the full amount that they requested to fulfill NASA's requirements as outlined in the request for proposals. In other words, the two companies set their own contract award. |
SkyMan1958
Member Posts: 1130
From: CA.
Registered: Jan 2011
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posted 09-16-2014 04:13 PM
So Boeing says its cost to develop is over 50% more than SpaceX? Unless its spacecraft is significantly more capable than Dragon 2, that alone says something.Still, I would like to point out that at the end of the day, I'm just glad that two systems are being funded. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 47486
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-16-2014 04:28 PM
Yes, the two budgets say something about the companies' plans, but don't be too quick to judge what it says. Time will tell. |
Headshot
Member Posts: 1033
From: Vancouver, WA, USA
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 09-16-2014 04:56 PM
So what happens with Sierra Nevada now? Do they close up shop or continue on their own dime? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 47486
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-16-2014 05:00 PM
Sierra Nevada Corporation release Statement from Sierra Nevada Corporation regarding Commercial Crew Transportation Capability contract awardSierra Nevada Corporation (SNC) recognizes that NASA has made a selection of an alternative provider(s) in the Commercial Crew Transportation Capability Contract (CCtCap) competition. SNC is planning to have a debrief session with NASA soon to obtain the source selection statement and decision rationale. When this process is complete and after a thorough evaluation, SNC will elaborate further on its future options regarding the NASA Commercial Crew Transportation Capability (CCtCap) contract decision and the Dream Chaser program. Due to this pending activity SNC will have no further public statement at this time. We will be providing further information at a later date. While SNC is disappointed NASA did not select its Dream Chaser Space System for the CCtCap contract, SNC commends NASA for initiating the effort and is privileged to have been part of returning human space flight to the United States through our awarded contracts in all other phases of NASA's Commercial Crew Program over the past four years. |
dabolton
Member Posts: 419
From: Seneca, IL, US
Registered: Jan 2009
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posted 09-16-2014 05:10 PM
Does the SpaceX award cover the booster and crew module while the Boeing award only covers the crew module since Boeing is using existing boosters? That would seem to make the Boeing capsule itself significantly higher cost than the end-to-end SpaceX system. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 47486
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-16-2014 05:13 PM
The contract only covers certification of the spacecraft and the launch cost for a test flight to the International Space Station.SpaceX's development of the Falcon is not part of the CCtCap contract. |
Fra Mauro
Member Posts: 1739
From: Bethpage, N.Y.
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted 09-16-2014 05:20 PM
Not suprised by the selection. The big boys with the political clout and deep campaign pockets were the favorites. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 47486
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-16-2014 05:24 PM
Until the source selection statement is released, the suggestion of any rationale for the choices of SpaceX and Boeing is pure speculation. I suggest we can do without casting aspersions on this forum. |
Headshot
Member Posts: 1033
From: Vancouver, WA, USA
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted 09-16-2014 05:29 PM
I thought it was odd that no one at this announcement was directly involved with the selection process/decisions. You just knew that at least one reporter was going to delve into that.Has the follow-up telecon with Kathy Lueders occurred yet? If so, was any light shined on the selection process and the rational for NASA's final choices? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 47486
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-16-2014 05:30 PM
The teleconference is over. As in the press conference, as this is an active procurement process, the details of the selection could not be discussed (despite several attempts by reporters to discuss them). |
GACspaceguy
Member Posts: 2754
From: Guyton, GA
Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 09-16-2014 06:04 PM
Fantastic! Eggs in two baskets, what a win, win for both. The amount difference will pan out, remember SpaceX is already flying an unmanned vehicle, basic concept is tested out already which may account for asking for less money. Time will tell. |
issman1
Member Posts: 1082
From: UK
Registered: Apr 2005
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posted 09-17-2014 04:20 AM
Good decision by NASA to keep it simple by selecting capsules instead of a mini-spaceplane. |
RISPACE
Member Posts: 67
From: Warwick, RI USA
Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 09-17-2014 09:13 AM
Forgive me if I sound naive, but how does all of this affect EFT-1 and the Orion spacecraft? Will we have three spacecraft available? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 47486
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-17-2014 09:20 AM
Yes, three spacecraft.Boeing's CST-100 and SpaceX's Dragon will be used for flights to and from the International Space Station. Lockheed Martin's Orion will be used for missions beyond Earth orbit. NASA will own the Orion spacecraft Lockheed Martin builds (with the exception of the EFT-1 capsule, which Lockheed owns). Boeing and SpaceX will retain ownership of the spacecraft they build. NASA will purchase seats on one or both as needed in a rental car-type model. |
cspg
Member Posts: 6280
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Registered: May 2006
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posted 09-17-2014 11:13 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
Boeing's CST-100 and SpaceX's Dragon will be used for flights to and from the International Space Station.
So if the ISS is shut down (for any reason, financial, technical, accidental), then what are Boeing and SpaceX going to do with their capsules?
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Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 47486
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-17-2014 11:24 AM
Boeing has an agreement in place with Bigelow Aerospace to support its private inflatable space stations, which Bigelow said earlier this year were to be ready to launch by 2016 pending Boeing being ready with its CST-100. "Our plan is to have two of our BA-330 modules ready to ship to the launch site by the end of 2016," said Jay Ingham, Bigelow's vice president and program manager for the BA 330. "But the actual launching of those vehicles and the space operations that go on with those is very dependent on us, or us as a country, having a space transportation system to get crew and cargo back and forth to our modules." Boeing also has an agreement with Space Adventures to fly its customers and has developed an alternate CST-100 interior for just such a purpose.SpaceX, meanwhile, has said its development of the Crew Dragon, while tailored to meet NASA's needs, is not solely in support of the space station but also its own goals of a private mission to Mars, as well as other commercial projects such as a DragonLab. |
328KF
Member Posts: 1341
From:
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 09-17-2014 02:26 PM
Some of Bolden's comments yesterday addressed the multiple LEO destination question. He indicated that the goal is to have multiple places for these spacecraft to service as part of a robust LEO infrastructure.He did not go into any detail about how that was going to be accomplished, or how NASA might help it along. My first thought was that he could have mentioned the planned Bigelow module that will be attached to ISS for on-orbit testing. As this process has played out, I have expressed some concern over the single destination of ISS potentially going away for a variety of reasons. The announcement yesterday indicated there is a minimum of two, and a maximum of six flights for each provider under this contract. This assumes that all goes well for the ISS in the coming years. So the market in LEO (or beyond) will have to expand to make these commercial ventures sustainable. An occasional joyride for billionaires may not even fill enough seats to make a profit. Aside from that, I certainly hope that SNC finds a way to move forward with Dream Chaser. I think that design had several advantages over the capsule designs that were deemed less important than the political connections or whatever else contributed to the selections. I too was surprised to hear that neither the Commercial Crew head or the NASA Administrator had any input into the decision. |
SpaceAholic
Member Posts: 4960
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-17-2014 09:27 PM
Our county received a call from Boeing today confirming that with the CST-100 selection, we remain in the mix of 3 potential recovery locations for the capsule. The prospective site is a dry lake bed (Willcox Playa). |
dabolton
Member Posts: 419
From: Seneca, IL, US
Registered: Jan 2009
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posted 01-27-2015 04:11 PM
It is reasonable to expect the astronaut office be divided into teams specializing in each vehicle? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 47486
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 01-27-2015 04:14 PM
Based on what Johnson Space Center director Ellen Ochoa said on Monday (Jan. 26, 2015), it would seem for now that a small group of astronauts will be assigned to monitor and work with both Boeing and SpaceX in preparation for flights on both vehicles. Eventually, once commercial service is underway, astronauts would be assigned on an individual basis to either Dragon or CST-100 (or Soyuz) depending on what vehicle their crew is using to fly to the space station. |
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