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Author
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Topic: NASA's Genesis sample return capsule impact
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nasamad
Member Posts: 2121
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 09-08-2004 12:15 PM
   
Watching live, 17.00 GMT, NASA's Genesis sample return mission has impacted the desert floor with no sign of either drogue or parafoil deployment.Sad day for many dedicated people. |
DavidH
Member Posts: 1217
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 09-08-2004 12:22 PM
NASA Genesis Genesis Mission Status ReportThe Genesis sample return capsule entered Earth's atmosphere at 9:52:47 a.m. MDT and entered the preplanned entry ellipse in the Utah Test and Training Range as predicted. However, the Genesis capsule, as a result of its parachute not deploying, impacted the ground at a speed of 311 kilometers per hour (193 mph). The impact occurred near Granite Peak on a remote portion of the range. No people or structures were anywhere near the area. "We have the capsule," said Genesis project manager Don Sweetnam of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. "It is on the ground. We have previously written procedures and tools at our disposal for such an event. We are beginning capsule recovery operations at this time." By the time the capsule entered Earth's atmosphere, the flight crews tasked to capture Genesis were already in the air. Once it was confirmed the capsule touched down out on the range, the flight crews were guided toward the site to initiate a previously developed contingency plan. They landed close to the capsule and per the plan, began to document the capsule and the area. "For the velocity of the impact, I thought there was surprisingly little damage," said Roy Haggard of Vertigo Inc., Lake Elsinore, Calif., who took part in the initial reconnaissance of the capsule. "I observed the capsule penetrated the soil about 50 percent of its diameter. The shell had been breached about three inches and I could see the science canister inside and that also appeared to have a small breach," he said. The safety of recovery personnel has been the top priority. The capsule's separation charge had to be confirmed safe before the capsule could be moved. The recovery team is in the process of preparing to move the capsule to a clean room. The Genesis mission was launched in August 2001 on a journey to capture samples from the storehouse of 99 percent of all the material in our solar system -- the sun. The samples of solar wind particles, collected on ultra-pure wafers of gold, sapphire, silicon and diamond were designed to be returned for analysis by Earth-bound scientists. |
Spacebug
Member Posts: 72
From: Yacolt WA USA
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 09-08-2004 12:40 PM
Very sad loss indeed. |
Rodina
Member Posts: 836
From: Lafayette, CA
Registered: Oct 2001
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posted 09-08-2004 12:53 PM
Damn. |
FFrench
Member Posts: 3161
From: San Diego
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 09-08-2004 01:03 PM
There is still some hope... right now the aeroshell looks like it might still be intact. NASA press conference in less than an hour should hopefully tell us. |
FFrench
Member Posts: 3161
From: San Diego
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 09-08-2004 01:18 PM
Maybe not... contrary to the first reports, latest images show a split — but perhaps some samples may be saved. |
nojnj
Member Posts: 503
From: Highland Heights, KY
Registered: Feb 2003
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posted 09-08-2004 01:21 PM
Very disappointing. It seems more individuals are remembering NASA's problems a lot longer than its successes. It sure doesn't need the negative publicity. I miss the days when NASA was supported the way it should be. |
nojnj
Member Posts: 503
From: Highland Heights, KY
Registered: Feb 2003
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posted 09-08-2004 01:22 PM
Great footage on NASA TV showing the descent. |
spaceuk
Member Posts: 2113
From: Staffs, UK
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 09-08-2004 02:35 PM
Although it would be a shame if the samples have been 'lost' — though having seen some early tv footage it looks like some may be recoverable.However, the Genesis mission should be viewed a 'success' in that all other aspects of the mission were accomplished including those dramatic loops around the lagrange points and the final entry into earth's atmosphere. Stardust in Jan. 2005 can perhaps redeem some of the lost glory. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-08-2004 04:30 PM
I was interested that during the press conference it was said that shovels would be used to dig out the spacecraft. I realize the first and foremost priority for the scientists involved must be to recover what ever science on-board the spacecraft is salvageable, but I wonder how often it is that we get the chance to study an impact crater from an object returning from space unaided. Unfortunately no one asked during the conference (and I couldn't get over to NASA HQ in time) to query if the impact crater itself was going to be documented before its own destruction retrieving the capsule.Another question that came to mind this afternoon: during the conference they said that this scenario (crash landing) was one of the situations they had planned for; I wonder if another had been knowing before reentry began that the parachutes wouldn't deploy and if so, if they would have done anything differently? |
Rizz
Member Posts: 1208
From: Upcountry, Maui, Hawaii
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 09-08-2004 04:43 PM
...maybe another set of chutes?I don't view this as a failure as much as a incomplete mission. Putting things into perspective, the crews and craft performed a phenomenal feat, and should be very proud of the accomplishments achieved. Bravo! |
FFrench
Member Posts: 3161
From: San Diego
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 09-08-2004 04:58 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Rizz:
Putting things into perspective, the crews and craft performed a phenomenal feat, and should be very proud of the accomplishments achieved.
Well put. I've just been doing TV interviews about it here at the Science Center — the media usually likes to spin these events as a "disaster/embarrassment for NASA" — and I stressed to them just what you said. |
Danno
Member Posts: 572
From: Ridgecrest, CA - USA
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted 09-08-2004 09:39 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
...but I wonder how often it is that we get the chance to study an impact crater from an object returning from space unaided.
Robert, since the spaceship was only traveling ~200 mph when it impacted, the crater wouldn't be very interesting.Out at the Kwajalein Missile Range (KMR) they occasionally have land impacts of ICBM re-entry vehicles traveling ~mach 25 and there are craters aplenty to study. |
Rizz
Member Posts: 1208
From: Upcountry, Maui, Hawaii
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 09-08-2004 10:15 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Danno:
Out at the Kwajalein Missile Range (KMR) they occasionally have land impacts of ICBM re-entry vehicles traveling ~mach 25 and there are craters aplenty to study.
Are you sure about that?Kwaj is a pretty small island. It is my understanding that most rocket bodies traveling at that speed (Mach 25) burn up upon re-entry and the debris field impact zones are usually in the ocean, away from people. I could be wrong though. |
Rodina
Member Posts: 836
From: Lafayette, CA
Registered: Oct 2001
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posted 09-09-2004 01:13 AM
There is no way there will ever be a backup parachute on something like this. That's a lot of weight for the chute, the lines, the control and the charge -- all of which can be better used for other stuff.I just can't recall a chute ever failing like this -- unless, maybe, that's what happened to Mars Polar Lander. |
Rizz
Member Posts: 1208
From: Upcountry, Maui, Hawaii
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 09-09-2004 01:48 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Rodina:
There is no way there will ever be a backup parachute on something like this.
Well, they did the really hard part already -Seems like some sort of a redundant system to insure a soft landing would have been in order. The soviets have got thier version of a 'soft landing' figured out. |
SpaceAholic
Member Posts: 4437
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-09-2004 02:15 AM
...the craft only impacted at 192 MPH even without the chutes opening... that's a tremendous amount of energy already dissipated from the 20K plus miles per hour it was traveling upon reentry by simple atmospheric drag on the capsule... why not a capsule which as an inherent characteristic of the re-entry vehicle shape, exchanges decent energy for lift (like the ROTON) ...such a design could even be snagged by a conventional aircraft.I am just stunned that in the absence of the drogue and primary chutes, the capsule did not overshoot the target landing site. |
phase pistol
Member Posts: 16
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 09-09-2004 04:15 AM
Eerily reminiscent of the SCOOP satellite return in 1969, which caused the tragedy in Piedmont, New Mexico.See Project Wildfire documents for more info on that one.  |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-09-2004 04:35 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Rodina:
I just can't recall a chute ever failing like this -- unless, maybe, that's what happened to Mars Polar Lander.
When discussing parachute failures, Soyuz 1 comes to mind. The drogue chute deployed but the main chute failed; Komarov deployed the reserve chute but it became tangled with the drogue. Different failure than Genesis of course, but both involving failed chute deployments. |
FFrench
Member Posts: 3161
From: San Diego
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 09-09-2004 11:32 AM
One thing JPL will probably be looking at closely is the Stardust mission, now heading back to Earth and also designed to use a parachute for sample return. It is a slightly different method - hopefully different enough to avoid a repeat - but I am sure they are thinking about possible troubleshoots/contingencies. |
Danno
Member Posts: 572
From: Ridgecrest, CA - USA
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted 09-09-2004 11:38 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Rizz:
Are you sure about that?
Keep in mind that these are re-entry vehicles (RVs) not rocket bodies. They are designed to survive the heat of the atmosphere. Von Braun and his team were using ablative surfaces to develop ICBMs while they were still in White Sands.While Kwajalein is indeed a small islad, it is part of the largest atoll in the world. When RVs are launched towards it from Vandenberg they usually target water impact sites where the airframe is destroyed on impact. But on rare occasions they target one of the islands, Illiginni, which is much smaller than Kwaj. The nuclear warheads are replaced with depleted uranium to keep the mass properties the same and a non-explosive impact at those speeds has enough kinetic energy to light up the night sky! Anyway, I was watching Genesis wobble to Earth and thought they were lucky it was so light and un-aerodynamic as that is what slowed it down considerably. |
Rizz
Member Posts: 1208
From: Upcountry, Maui, Hawaii
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 09-09-2004 01:39 PM
I stand corrected - thanks Dan. |
Glint
Member Posts: 1040
From: New Windsor, Maryland USA
Registered: Jan 2004
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posted 09-09-2004 05:09 PM
quote:
Originally posted by phase pistol:
Eerily reminiscent of the SCOOP satellite return in 1969, which caused the tragedy in Piedmont, New Mexico.
Karl, when I saw the video of the cracked hull I too was reminded of the Andromeda Strain and thought to myself, "Life, meet Art." |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3120
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 09-09-2004 06:18 PM
Watching the TV coverage of Genesis falling to Earth, I couldn't help wondering if Beagle 2 suffered a similar fate.Of course, there is a big difference: NASA has the wreckage of Genesis to examine for answers. Beagle's fate will probably never be known (at least not in the life-time of anyone reading this!) |
nojnj
Member Posts: 503
From: Highland Heights, KY
Registered: Feb 2003
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posted 09-09-2004 10:27 PM
I am glad we are a society that still tries to escape the bonds of earth. I would rather be part of a race that at least tried and accomplished much with some setbacks, than not to have tried at all. |
cspg
Member Posts: 6210
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Registered: May 2006
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posted 11-07-2013 08:49 AM
There was a (horror) movie based on this mission (the crash landing part) but also overlaps the Stardust mission. See "Monsters" (2010) at IMDB.Not a masterpiece in the space or horror genre but watchable. It was fun to see the Ares I test flight broadcast on the hotel tv room the main characters stayed at while waiting to get back to the U.S. |
Glint
Member Posts: 1040
From: New Windsor, Maryland USA
Registered: Jan 2004
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posted 11-07-2013 10:59 AM
Yes, and then there was Michael Crichton's classic Andromeda Strain, which was decades ahead of its time. |
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