Topic: Buran space shuttle: anniversaries and memories
dom Member
Posts: 855 From: Registered: Aug 2001
posted 11-15-2008 10:37 AM
Today's the 20th anniversary of the launch of the Soviet shuttle Buran... so here's a nostalgia look back at a brief moment when it really looked like the Space Shuttle had a rival!
Jay Chladek Member
Posts: 2272 From: Bellevue, NE, USA Registered: Aug 2007
posted 11-16-2008 04:18 AM
Very cool find!
nasamad Member
Posts: 2121 From: Essex, UK Registered: Jul 2001
posted 11-16-2008 04:59 AM
I still find it amazing that the orbital flight was flown unmanned!
Rick Mulheirn Member
Posts: 4167 From: England Registered: Feb 2001
posted 11-16-2008 05:34 AM
Great footage!
Daniel Lazecky Member
Posts: 480 From: Czech Republic-Europe Registered: Oct 2007
posted 11-16-2008 06:00 AM
Glory vinners, honour loser. Backwoodsmann was though as far as second, but this machine and his builders will deserve same respect and repect.
Viva Shuttle viva Buran.
SpaceCadet83 Member
Posts: 38 From: Enid, OK, United States Registered: Oct 2007
posted 11-16-2008 12:00 PM
"It reminds me of the heady days of Sputnik and Yuri Gagarin...."
- Captain Marko Ramius The Hunt for Red October
Excellent footage! Thanks for posting it!
David Stephenson Member
Posts: 294 From: England Registered: Mar 2003
posted 11-22-2008 05:26 PM
Thanks for posting, I always wonder how much things would have been different if Buran had got its chance.
music_space Member
Posts: 1179 From: Canada Registered: Jul 2001
posted 11-24-2008 04:45 PM
I wonder too, and I wish that the Buran system luminati among us care to volunteer a bit of what-ifs, had the Buran program proceeded as planned. How different would have been the exploitation of the US STS? Would we have seen some Shuttle-Buran Test Project (with Deke as CDR, of course)? How would it have affected the ISS schedule? Was the Buran system safer than the ISS by design?
gliderpilotuk Member
Posts: 3398 From: London, UK Registered: Feb 2002
posted 11-26-2008 03:56 PM
quote:Originally posted by nasamad: I still find it amazing that the orbital flight was flown unmanned!
Me too. Funny how little credit this achievement is given.
machbusterman Member
Posts: 1778 From: Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland Registered: May 2004
posted 11-29-2008 03:09 AM
I may be mistaken but I am sure I read somewhere that the Space Shuttle was designed with the ability to have a fully automated flight profile in order for it to be man-rated. NASA chose to fly the first flight manned in order to save money/time as the program was already well over budget and a few years behind schedule.
I think it was a terrible shame that Buran was mothballed after only this one unmanned flight... Had it gone into service one of the first cosmonauts to fly it would have been Alexander Volkov. He mentioned this in his lecture that I attended a few years ago.
mercsim Member
Posts: 219 From: Phoenix, AZ Registered: Feb 2007
posted 11-29-2008 12:03 PM
I thought the first approach looked a little flat so I studied it a little closer and noticed the jet engines and different color scheme. I went to YouTube and searched on 'Buran' and found lots of neat videos. There was some cockpit footage and some lift-off footage of the shuttle flying with the jet engines. I didn't realize it flew test flights like this. Very Cool!
Delta7 Member
Posts: 1505 From: Bluffton IN USA Registered: Oct 2007
posted 11-29-2008 03:01 PM
quote:Originally posted by machbusterman: I think it was a terrible shame that Buran was mothballed after only this one unmanned flight... Had it gone into service one of the first cosmonauts to fly it would have been Alexander Volkov. He mentioned this in his lecture that I attended a few years ago.
If memory serves me, I seemed to have read somewhere that Igor Volk was to have commanded the first manned Buran flight, with another cosmonaut, Aleksandr Shchukin, who was eventually killed in a plane crash. The late Anatoli Levchenko was a member of the original backup crew.
Jay Chladek Member
Posts: 2272 From: Bellevue, NE, USA Registered: Aug 2007
posted 11-30-2008 10:43 PM
The big thing about Buran is the system was about four to six years away from a second flight after that first test and the second one was planned to be unmanned as well with a docking to Mir by an orbiter with a full life support system. At Mir, the cosmonauts would have boarded the shuttle and conducted tests of the Buran's version of the RMS. I don't think a manned flight was planned until flight three or four. Of course, the Soviet Union collapsed before that could happen and the program was cancelled not long after by the new Russian government since it was very costly (some attribute Buran as a reason for the collapse of the Soviet Union).
I think part of the reason for the stretching out of Buran's schedule mainly had to do with Challenger as at the time of STS-51L, Discovery was planned to fly the first mission from Vandenberg that year and this is what concerned the Soviets the most as it meant the shuttle then had a military polar orbit capability. It was the military aspects of shuttle that had them scrambling to develop Buran and I'm sure the SDI program of the 1980s didn't help matters either. When plans for Vandenberg launches got cancelled, the military aspects of Buran probably became less of a priority.
If Buran had existed today, I imagine the world would be very different. Be it the Soviets or a Russian government, we probably would not have an ISS and instead the station in orbit more then likely would be closer to Space Station Freedom as it was originally intended. Granted there might be some international missions, but the what if waters start to get a bit murky.
As it stands though, one element of Buran is still flying today and has been a vital element of ISS shuttle flights. This is the docking device used by the shuttle to dock with the ISS. It was first developed for Buran to dock with Mir and it continues to be used today by the NASA shuttle program.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 11-15-2013 09:02 AM
Today (Nov. 15, 2013) marks the 25th anniversary of the first and only launch of Russia's Buran space shuttle.
I had a chance to see the flight article at the Baikonur Cosmodrome on April 24, 2002. Just 18 days later, the roof of the building collapsed, destroying the shuttle.
Hart Sastrowardoyo Member
Posts: 3445 From: Toms River, NJ Registered: Aug 2000
posted 11-15-2013 11:25 AM
Now, if there was only a photo of you in Buran's cockpit...
Does this mean you're one of the few people who have seen or been in all the orbiters - all six of the US shuttles and Buran, not including the unfinished Russian ones? (What about the ones with the jet engines that were used for the Russian ALTs?)
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 11-15-2013 04:07 PM
Unfortunately, there was no opportunity to go inside the Buran, given its position atop the pressurized Energia booster.
With regards to seeing all the orbiters, I never saw Challenger (I was in sixth grade when it was lost).
With regards to Buran(s), in addition to the flight article, I have seen the OK-GLI (when it was at Zhukovsky Air Base, before ultimately landing in the Technik Museum Speyer in Germany); the Buran prototype in Gorky Park, Moscow; and the test model OK-M before it was moved and restored at the museum in Baikonur.
Shuttle Endeavour Member
Posts: 234 From: Freehold, NJ, USA Registered: Aug 2013
posted 11-15-2013 04:25 PM
I know the snowstorm destroyed Buran, but I have heard that the Shuttle was restored. Is this true?
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 11-15-2013 09:02 PM
Snowstorm is the English translation of Buran.
The hangar collapse that resulted in the destruction of the flight article Buran was the result of tar being loaded onto the roof for repairs. The weight of the tar brought the roof down and in the process, punctured the pressurized Energia booster, in turn blowing out the orbiter.
It was damaged well beyond repair and the pieces were scrapped/recycled.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
Amid much international speculation and after many delays, the Soviet Union launched the Buran (Snowstorm), its first full-scale reusable space shuttle, on November 15, 1988. Although they tested the Buran extensively in the Earth’s atmosphere with trained pilots, the maiden, and only, orbital launch was made without a crew. The Buran launched strapped onto the Energia launch vehicle, the largest among Soviet launch vehicles. It resembled the American shuttle quite closely — not by coincidence. Through espionage, the Soviets obtained the design specifications of the US shuttle...
Hart Sastrowardoyo Member
Posts: 3445 From: Toms River, NJ Registered: Aug 2000
posted 11-15-2013 10:16 PM
quote:Originally posted by Robert Pearlman: punctured the pressurized Energia booster
The question is, why was it pressurized? To maintain structural integrity? Isn't there a better way to do so? And is the ET on which Pathfinder is mounted pressurized?
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 11-15-2013 10:25 PM
The Energia booster, like the original incarnations of the U.S. Atlas booster, employed a pressure-stabilized propellant tank design (the U.S. external tank did not).
Using pressure, rather than support beams and stringers, to maintain the tank's shape and structure, cuts down on the overall weight of the booster, but does have its tradeoffs (such as in this case).
BMckay Member
Posts: 3219 From: MA, USA Registered: Sep 2002
posted 11-16-2013 01:04 PM
quote:Originally posted by Hart Sastrowardoyo: Now, if there was only a photo of you in Buran's cockpit...
Here is a picture of inside of the Buran Test Vehicle outside the museum at Baikinor taken two years ago.
Max Q Member
Posts: 399 From: Whyalla South Australia Registered: Mar 2007
posted 11-17-2013 04:45 AM
I know I'm a voice in the wilderness on this but I still feel it was sad that America chose to fly manned first up. Kudos for the Soviets for showing the way. Pity it never flew as long as the shuttle.
Hart Sastrowardoyo Member
Posts: 3445 From: Toms River, NJ Registered: Aug 2000
posted 11-17-2013 02:52 PM
quote:Originally posted by Robert Pearlman: The Energia booster, like the original incarnations of the U.S. Atlas booster, employed a pressure-stabilized propellant tank design (the U.S. external tank did not).
That I did not know about the Soviet Energia. So a Challenger-type scenario would have been worse, although the same outcome.
Glint Member
Posts: 1040 From: New Windsor, Maryland USA Registered: Jan 2004
posted 06-17-2014 09:14 AM
In Aviation Week's On Space blog, Frank Morring, Jr. writes an interesting article with photos of the remains of the Russian Buran space shuttle flight article.
The three surviving space shuttle orbiters – Atlantis, Discovery, and Endeavour – and the atmospheric test article Enterprise are proudly ensconced in museums around the U.S., but the Soviet-era Buran is a forgotten relic.
A Buran flew one unpiloted mission in 1988, returning intact to the long runway near its launch pad on the Baikonur Cosmodrome. Although superficially a twin of the U.S. orbiters, Buran was the only one to land on autopilot.
There are a few surviving mockups -– notably in Moscow's Gorky Park -– but the flightworthy Buran was destroyed on May 12, 2002, when a roof at Baikonur's Site 112 collapsed, apparently from a combination of poor maintenance and a heavy burden of snow.
The collapse is believed to have killed eight maintenance workers. It crushed the flight Buran...
quote:Originally posted by Glint: ...interesting article with photos of the remains of the Russian Buran space shuttle flight article.
Wouldn't you just love to spend a couple of weeks rummaging through all that debris? Now THAT would be a fun field trip!
p51 Member
Posts: 1642 From: Olympia, WA Registered: Sep 2011
posted 06-17-2014 04:49 PM
The Space Store sells 1" squares of the tiles. I'd wondered where they were finding the material until I read this article. Makes perfect sense to me now.
Man, it's so hard to believe that the remains are STILL sitting there. Then I have to remind myself of the state of affairs there...
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 06-17-2014 04:57 PM
To the best of my knowledge, no Buran material from after its destruction has left the building, let alone reached the market.
The Buran tiles (and segments thereof) that are for sale all predate the collapse by years, and very likely do not originate from the flown-in-space orbiter. The flown Buran was kept atop the Energia booster in part to keep it out of reach of souvenir hunters.
On edit: In fact, the Space Store is very clear when and where its tiles originate:
Own your own piece of Russian space history with this wonderful piece of the Buran Space Shuttle 2.03 that was dismantled in 1995!
Buran 2.03 was never completed, let alone anywhere close to flying at the point the program was canceled in 1993.
MrSpace86 Member
Posts: 1618 From: Gardner, KS, USA Registered: Feb 2003
posted 06-18-2014 12:42 PM
So the building and the remains will pretty much be left alone to rot and wither away? Any plans for cleanup or re-use of the building?
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 06-18-2014 12:48 PM
The hangar is just one part of a larger facility. On the other side of the building remains a much more modern, intact satellite and payload processing facility.
Rosocosmos has a lot of infrastructure improvement needs, so disposing of the hangar may be low on the priority list.
gliderpilotuk Member
Posts: 3398 From: London, UK Registered: Feb 2002
posted 06-11-2015 08:39 AM
Interesting photos of the remaining Buran orbiters at Baikonur. One of these is OK-1K2 "Ptichka" or "Little Bird" — which was set to fly in 1991.
Lasv3 Member
Posts: 410 From: Bratislava, Slovakia Registered: Apr 2009
posted 06-11-2015 10:17 AM
Excellent photos, though very sad view. What a waste of resources, skills, working efforts, too sad.
MrSpace86 Member
Posts: 1618 From: Gardner, KS, USA Registered: Feb 2003
posted 06-12-2015 07:46 AM
Excellent gallery. Is the other orbiter a test article like the one in Gorky Park? The entire building looks decayed and ready to tumble down.
Orbiter #3 was "rescued" from the state it was in; it was repainted and "assembled together" for some aviation exhibit about a year or two ago. I can't find the links at the moment.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 06-12-2015 08:06 AM
The second orbiter is OK-MT (OK-ML-2), built as a testbed that was earmarked to launched on the Energia but not be recovered.
OK-TVA, which previously sat in Gorky Park but was moved in 2014 to the All-Russian Exhibition Center, or VDNKh, was a thermal, mechanical and acoustic test vehicle.
MrSpace86 Member
Posts: 1618 From: Gardner, KS, USA Registered: Feb 2003
posted 06-12-2015 02:33 PM
OK-2.01 was to be the third operational Buran to fly that has been "restored".
Thanks Robert for the link! That was the website I was looking for.
Lunar rock nut Member
Posts: 911 From: Oklahoma city, Oklahoma U.S.A. Registered: Feb 2007
posted 06-14-2015 09:06 AM
quote:Originally posted by gliderpilotuk: Interesting photos of the remaining Buran orbiters at Baikonur.
Oh to be a kid and stumble upon that building. Fascinating imagery.
burnsnz Member
Posts: 74 From: Auckland, New Zealand Registered: Jan 2004
posted 06-26-2015 06:40 PM
Have you seen this article? Simply incredible.
MrSpace86 Member
Posts: 1618 From: Gardner, KS, USA Registered: Feb 2003
posted 06-29-2015 10:02 AM
Wow, what an incredible article. I am surprised they were able to get in. No doubt these would make beautiful display pieces in any museum in the world. One can only dream.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 06-29-2015 10:31 AM
The article is a piece of clickbait fiction; the photos are the same as the original LiveJournal link Paul (gliderpilotuk) posted on June 11.
Photographer Ralph Mirebs didn't "notice an abandoned hangar," the location of the Buran orbiters was not forgotten or unknown, and he didn't break in.
MrSpace86 Member
Posts: 1618 From: Gardner, KS, USA Registered: Feb 2003
posted 07-06-2015 11:09 AM
I noticed CNN ran the article a few days ago highlighting these photos. There are photos of an Energia booster in there as well.
posted 11-15-2008 10:37 AM
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