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  Space station IS NOT moving to avoid Chinese ASAT debris

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Author Topic:   Space station IS NOT moving to avoid Chinese ASAT debris
Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 02-04-2007 02:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
On Feb. 2, UPI published a story titled, Space station moves to avoid debris, which the wire service credited RIA Novosti as the source.
quote:
U.S. and Russian officials changed the International Space Station's orbit to keep it clear of debris from a satellite destroyed by China, a report says.

"We are diverting the orbit of the ISS to prevent a possible collision with large fragments of space debris, a decision the Russian Mission Control took together with the Johnson Space Center in Houston," a Russian Mission Control spokesman told Novosti Friday.


The story is false, NBC News space analyst Jim Oberg explains (source: NSF).
quote:
There has been no maneuver in space, and none are currently planned -- I verified with NASA spokesman John Ira Petty in Houston...

Novosti botched the translation, and UPI didn't realize it -- and didn't try to verify with NASA...

Here's the original Russian story.

Not to show off or anything... I get by in Russian, and here's the much more accurate translation of the verb tenses: "In order to protect ISS from the possibility of collision with big pieces of space junk, we conduct a maneuver of avoidance to lead the station to the side. The Russian MCC takes the decision of carrying out this maneuver together with the Johnson space center in Houston."

The Russian expert at Moscow Mission Control is speaking hypothetically. This is, he explains, what we do in order
to keep the station safe from space junk.

It's not what we have just done, today. It has nothing to do with actual events today. The verb tenses indicate that.


The UPI story was syndicated and made its way, among other places, to the front page of the Drudge Report...

Rizz
Member

Posts: 1208
From: Upcountry, Maui, Hawaii
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 02-04-2007 01:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rizz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The ring of debris from the Chinese satellite hit has already spread out enough that the station passes through it twice on every 90-minute orbit of the earth.

Way to go China.

From ABC News...

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/print?id=2841745


[Edited by Rizz (February 04, 2007).]

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 02-04-2007 01:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The risk to the ISS from China's ASAT debris has already lessened to the point that the previous collection of junk that was already up there prior to the test is again a greater risk. As reported by Leonard David on SPACE.com:
quote:
"The collision risk between the Fengyun-1C debris cloud and the International Space Station peaked shortly after the breakup and has been declining since. The risk of collisions between ISS and hazardous objects in Earth orbit is now once again dominated by the background debris population existing prior to the breakup of Fengyun-1C," [NASA's Chief Scientist for Orbital Debris Nicholas] Johnson said.

Rizz
Member

Posts: 1208
From: Upcountry, Maui, Hawaii
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 02-04-2007 02:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rizz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
The risk to the ISS from China's ASAT debris has already lessened...

Interesting conclusion.

quote:
As of today, the U.S. military’s Space Surveillance Network has cataloged nearly 600 debris fragments [Fengyun-1C]... However, more than 300 additional fragments are also being tracked, bringing it to a total of more than 900 bits of clutter...

"The total count of tracked objects could go even higher. Based upon the mass of Fengyun-1C and the conditions of the breakup, the standard NASA model for estimating the number of objects greater than 4 inches (10 centimeters) in size predicts a total about 950 such debris," Johnson advised SPACE.com.


Thats a lot of debris, or 'bits of clutter'.

Based on that, it seems like 950 more opportunities for collision, am I missing something?

Rizz

[Edited by collectSPACE Admin (February 04, 2007).]

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 02-04-2007 02:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rizz:
Based on that, it seems like 950 more opportunities for collision, am I missing something?
Yes, dispersion in orbit.
quote:
Johnson said that the debris cloud extends from less than 125 miles (200 kilometers) to more than 2,292 miles (3,850 kilometers), encompassing all of low Earth orbit. The majority of the debris have mean altitudes of 528 miles (850 kilometers) or greater, “which means most will be very long-lived,” he said.
The station's current orbit (per a 2/2 status report) has a mean altitude of 209.2 miles (336.7 km) with an apogee height of 218.5 miles (351.6 km). Most of the ASAT debris is far higher, which means that the debris may pose a higher risk in the far future, but not now...

Rizz
Member

Posts: 1208
From: Upcountry, Maui, Hawaii
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 02-04-2007 10:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rizz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Okay, thanks for clearing that up.

I knew I was missing something.

So the thousand pieces of new debris 'dispersed in orbit' encompassing 'all of low Earth orbit' may pose a higher risk in the 'far' future, but not now.

Got it.

Thanks China.

Rizz
Member

Posts: 1208
From: Upcountry, Maui, Hawaii
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 02-04-2007 11:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rizz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
...and another thought, it aggravates me to no end the Chinese would even do something this ignorant.

Their foreign minister stated that China is not interested in weaponizing space, so then what the hell were they thinking when they blew up their satellite?

Are they not aware that we have spent countless dollars and man hours trying to keep a tiny piece of foam from falling off the ET at launch, to protect the orbiter and her crews in space, in LEO ?

Space Command is now tracking over 500 pieces of debris from the collision -- each at least the size of a baseball, thousands smaller and an unknown amount that we cannot even see or track.

There have already been over 500 events where some piece of debris from this one event came within 3 miles of some payload in space.

They are not worthy to go to the moon.

They should stick to making fire-crackers and bottle rockets until they get a clue.

Sorry for the rant...


Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 02-04-2007 11:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
While China's test was certainly irresponsible and should be denounced and dissuaded from being repeated, they are far from the only country creating debris in orbit.

According to Johnson Space Center via Leonard David's blog, there was a significant increase in satellite breakups during 2006.

quote:
Contributing to the peppering of space with human-made junk: one Japanese and two U.S. rocket bodies, as well as a 7 metric ton Russian spy satellite.

Surprisingly — after its remaining fuel had been vented — a U.S. Delta II second stage that had been adrift for 17 years went kaBoom! Potential reasons for the unexpected breakup, including impact by another object, are under evaluation, according to the January issue of Orbital Debris Quarterly News.


The "surprising" part about the above was that the Delta II stage had been adrift for so long, not that it exploded. To quote the Center for Orbital and Reentry Debris Studies:
quote:
A major contributor to the orbital debris background has been object breakup. More than 124 breakups have been verified, and more are believed to have occurred. Breakups generally are caused by explosions and collisions with other objects in space, but the majority of breakups have been caused to explosions. Explosions can occur when propellant and oxidizer inadvertently mix, residual propellant becomes overpressurized due to heating, or batteries become overpressurized. Some satellites have been deliberately detonated. Explosions can also be indirectly triggered by collisions with debris.
Thus by your reasoning Rizz, perhaps none of the spacefaring nations are ready to go (or return) to the Moon...

Rizz
Member

Posts: 1208
From: Upcountry, Maui, Hawaii
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 02-05-2007 11:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rizz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
While China's test was certainly irresponsible and should be denounced and dissuaded from being repeated, they are far from the only country creating debris in orbit.

I see your point of course.

But apparently they are the only country creating debris in orbit for the sake of creating debris.

Intentionally firing a missile to break up a satellite is quite different than a satellite breaking up on its own.

FordPrefect
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Posts: 26
From: Karlsruhe, Germany
Registered: Apr 2005

posted 02-05-2007 07:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FordPrefect     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, the U.S. did so back in 1985:
http://www.svengrahn.pp.se/histind/ASAT/F15ASAT.html

Rizz
Member

Posts: 1208
From: Upcountry, Maui, Hawaii
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 02-06-2007 12:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rizz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I stand corrected.

All times are CT (US)

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