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Author
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Topic: Dissappointed again....
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spaceuk
Member Posts: 2113
From: Staffs, UK
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 11-08-2005 07:19 AM
  
"How was that for a Hail Mary pass?" McArthur said when he discarded the Floating Potential Probe instrument - which is now in its own orbit around the earth but will eventually burn up when it re-enters Earth's atmosphere.To me ,its more orbital debris that could easily have been 'retrieved' and stashed into a unmanned Progress for a later earth entry under more controlled conditions. As it was - and probably still is - a potential hazard to ISS and all incoming ferry flights. Are future mision EVA's - whether ISS or many years down the line - going to 'merrily' sling away any old junk without
caring what happens to it before it re-enters atmosphere. In later years, the altitudes may be higher and therefore casually tossed junk may take centuries before it enters? Come on NASA,RSA (and other space agency) control the way junk is handled and dispose of it in a better way - don't just toss it away.
Better still - bring it back for us space hardware collectors - we'll take it off your hands!
Phill
spaceuk |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-08-2005 08:36 AM
quote:
Originally posted by spaceuk:
As it was - and probably still is - a potential hazard to ISS and all incoming ferry flights.
According to NASA, it is expected to burn up in the Earth's atmosphere in about 100 days. |
mensax
Member Posts: 861
From: Virginia
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 11-10-2005 09:18 AM
This brings to my mind a few questions that maybe someone would know the answer to...1) When did we start chucking things overboard? I thought we were concerned about space debris. Is this on account of not having regular shuttle flights to bring back trash? 2)Why is it that this device would enter the atmosphere in only a few months? Is the space station in such a precarious orbit that without getting a boost that it would come down that soon? Does the space station rely on boosts from the shuttle? 3)Will this device reenter the atmosphere so soon because of the little bit of energy that it was given because of it being chucked? And, finaly which way would it have been thrown? Toward the Earth? or opposite the direction of the orbital path? Noah |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-10-2005 09:19 AM
quote:
Originally posted by mensax:
When did we start chucking things overboard? I thought we were concerned about space debris.
Initially, throwing anything overboard the ISS was banned by all international partners. Then the Russians, without consulting NASA or any other partner, had Padalka throw a pressurized cargo container during an Expedition 9 EVA. That triggered discussions with NASA, which, realizing the Russians would do with their equipment as they pleased, sought to formalize the procedure (in the process, making it possible for U.S. astronauts to do the same). On Expedition 10, the Russians "launched" a German mini-satellite in the same fashion. quote:
2)Why is it that this device would enter the atmosphere in only a few months?
Part of the new procedures involves a case-by-case evaluation. Items are approved for tossing based on their ballistic number (which is dependent on mass and surface area). Every item to be "tossed" is modeled on the ground and calculated for how long until reentry. This latest device will reenter in about 100 days. quote:
3)And, finaly which way would it have been thrown? Toward the Earth? or opposite the direction of the orbital path?
The probe was thrown up and aft from the top of the ISS. |
Rizz
Member Posts: 1208
From: Upcountry, Maui, Hawaii
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 11-10-2005 12:40 PM
Want an idea of how much 'debis' is really up there....? [This message has been edited by collectSPACE Admin (edited November 10, 2005).] |
Philip
Member Posts: 5952
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 11-10-2005 01:31 PM
I have several videos of EVAs onboard the MIR space station on which you can see that the cosmonauts throw lots of things towards Earth, going from screws to complete antennas...
Something to be discussed within COSPAR ? |
thump
Member Posts: 575
From: washington dc usa
Registered: May 2004
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posted 11-10-2005 01:48 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Rizz:
Want an idea of how much 'debis' is really up there....?
That's pretty amazing, any ideas as to what altitude range these are in?
[This message has been edited by collectSPACE Admin (edited November 10, 2005).] |
Rizz
Member Posts: 1208
From: Upcountry, Maui, Hawaii
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 11-10-2005 07:00 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Philip:
I have several videos of EVAs onboard the MIR space station on which you can see that the cosmonauts throw lots of things towards Earth, going from screws to complete antennas...
Something to be discussed within COSPAR ?
We all know what a tiny chip of paint can do to a shuttle windshield, not to mention a spacesuit.
If I were doing an EVA I'd sure be careful not to create more hazards than already exist. Rizz
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Rizz
Member Posts: 1208
From: Upcountry, Maui, Hawaii
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 11-10-2005 07:02 PM
quote:
Originally posted by thump:
That's pretty amazing, any ideas as to what altitude range these are in?
[This message has been edited by collectSPACE Admin (edited November 10, 2005).]
They go from LEO to GEO,unfortunately... |
MCroft04
Member Posts: 1634
From: Smithfield, Me, USA
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 11-10-2005 08:03 PM
I'm headed out of town for a while, but when I return I'll dig out the book somewhere in my study that explains the orbital mechanics of discarding an object into outer space so that it will surely burn up in the atmosphere. If I recall correctly it should be thrown downward and back towards the direction from which the space shuttle came (behind the shuttle). Buzz could explain it quickly if he were on line with us. Our astronauts and the cosmonauts are pretty smart people; they aren't going to purposely place an object in space that might collide with them later on. Buzz, help me out! |
Herkdriver
Member Posts: 24
From: Santa Clarita, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 11-13-2005 11:01 PM
I had a friend in the USAF who's job was to track all the trash floating in orbit. As you can believe, it is a 24/7 task. |
spaceuk
Member Posts: 2113
From: Staffs, UK
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 11-15-2005 11:18 AM
Here's what Russia Space Forces have said in last few days:-"...During 2005, the RSF issued 31 warnings to respective services about space objects dangerously approaching the International Space Station (ISS)..." Perhaps they should consider what their own and other ISS crew members are doing as well !
Phill
spaceuk
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Rizz
Member Posts: 1208
From: Upcountry, Maui, Hawaii
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 11-15-2005 12:03 PM
quote:
Originally posted by MCroft04:
...Our astronauts and the cosmonauts are pretty smart people; they aren't going to purposely place an object in space that might collide with them later on...
quote:
Originally posted by Philip:I have several videos of EVAs onboard the MIR space station on which you can see that the cosmonauts throw lots of things towards Earth, going from screws to complete antennas...
Debris is debris. We keep FOD out of our workplace here on Earth, I cannot believe that they don't practice the same in their work place in space.
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interstage
New Member Posts:
From:
Registered:
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posted 11-15-2005 01:06 PM
An interesting discussion. Back to this FPP that was thrown, its been humorous to see, in the past several years, the Christmas Tree painted on one of the FPP's sides actually placed in the NASA 3D graphics of the ISS -- it was dedicated there at the "highest" point of the station during the deployment of the first arrays. It wasn't quite clear if this was thrown away with the FPP as well, perhaps someone knows from watching the spacewalk. |
LT Scott Schneeweis
unregistered
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posted 11-17-2005 09:24 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Rizz:
They go from LEO to GEO,unfortunately...
And beyond...Apollo has a LEM ascent stage of Snoopy in heliocentric orbit (would be interested in obtaining the Keplarian elments to see when there is a transection of Earth and this "collectable")...less we forget there is at least one S-IVB that periodically visits us from deep space...the crew regularly dumped waste overboard while in lunar orbit..while all this is a potential impact hazard its at the same time good but challenging pickings for future Space Archeologists .. ------------------
Scott Schneeweis
URL http://www.SPACEAHOLIC.com/
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