Topic: Space debris sighting over the UK? (Sept. 21)
Blackarrow Member
Posts: 3118 From: Belfast, United Kingdom Registered: Feb 2002
posted 09-22-2012 12:45 PM
There have been widespread news reports of something burning up in the atmosphere with brilliant debris-trains visible over parts of Northern Ireland, Scotland and northern England.
From the accounts in the news and an early look at some footage, I doubt if this was meteor activity. Did any space enthusiasts see this? Did any known satellite burn up last night?
Rick Mulheirn Member
Posts: 4167 From: England Registered: Feb 2001
posted 09-22-2012 02:22 PM
My wife and I had a front row viewing last evening. We were leaving a party around 10.55pm when I spotted what I first thought was an aircraft or helicopter from the nearby Liverpool airport (some 8 or 9 miles away ...as the meteor flies.)
I quickly realised it was a single light source, akin to a flare such was its intensity... only it was yellow/green in colour and arcing silently across the sky.
We followed it for perhaps 15 seconds at which point a number of smaller pieces appeared to break off with little or no loss of overall intensity ...before it disappeared behind trees and a nearby hill.
It appeared to be heading in a south, south westerly direction towards the North Wales Coast.
When I saw the smaller pieces break off my thought was satellite debris.
It was quite spectacular... and eery. I was surprised at the extent of the viewing reports from much of the north of England as it appeared very close and at a relatively low altitude.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42981 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 09-22-2012 02:28 PM
For those who haven't seen it, a video:
Posts: 617 From: Dublin, Ireland Registered: Mar 2011
posted 09-23-2012 02:05 PM
quote:Originally posted by Blackarrow: Did any space enthusiasts see this?
On Friday 21 Sep, circa 23:00 IST (22:00 UTC), I was at Dunsink Observatory here in North Dublin, Ireland, for Dublin Culture Night 2012. I was in line for a viewing through the 1868 12in refractor, when I first spotted this bright light through the dome shutters which were open to the North.
Running outside, we could clearly see a very prominent bright white/yellow meteoric fireball on an East to North-West downward trajectory. During the 15-20sec pass approx. 8-10 smaller yellow/orange lights disintegrated off the main body and trailed downward on the same trajectory before vanishing. Talk about spectacular !!
First thought was that it was either a meteor or a piece of large space debris such as a satellite on re-entry. The observed trajectory doesn't seem to support the theory of a de-orbiting decaying satellite, however, and there was no prior indication of any planned re-entry.
One way or another, it was the perfect spectacle for a night of astronomical observation
Blackarrow Member
Posts: 3118 From: Belfast, United Kingdom Registered: Feb 2002
posted 09-24-2012 11:52 AM
The direction of travel seems to be a puzzle: most reports seem to suggest movement from east or northj-east to west or south-west. Is it plausible that two rocket stages, perhaps in roughly polar orbits, have collided and sprayed debris in odd directions? Are there any rocket-stages in a retrograde orbit? (For example, didn't Israel launch at least two satellites into retrograde orbit? Are any of the final stages still in orbit?)
Although meteors seem an easier explanation, the speed looks all wrong. How would Mr Occam wield his razor on this one?
Rick Mulheirn Member
Posts: 4167 From: England Registered: Feb 2001
posted 09-24-2012 01:20 PM
I may have been a little off in my estimation of the direction of travel, but I have seen reports of sightings "directly overhead"... in Llandudno in North Wales.
YankeeClipper Member
Posts: 617 From: Dublin, Ireland Registered: Mar 2011
posted 09-25-2012 03:58 PM
quote:Originally posted by Rick Mulheirn: I have seen reports of sightings "directly overhead"... in Llandudno in North Wales.
Llandudno is due East of Dublin, so those reports are entirely consistent with my observation. My initial thought was that any debris may have impacted in the North-West of Ireland or Northern Ireland such was the trajectory.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42981 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 10-03-2012 08:42 AM
It wasn't space junk, but rather a meteor — and a historic one at that, Sky & Telescope reports.
For the first time ever, a meteor has grazed in and out of Earth's atmosphere, slowing enough to become a temporary satellite that lasted a full orbit...
Mathematician Esko Lyytinen, a member of the Finnish Fireball Working Group of the Ursa Astronomical Association, has analyzed both sets of sightings and concludes that the two events resulted from a single object encountering Earth that night. He believes a large body grazed the upper atmosphere, dipping to an altitude of 33 miles (53 km) over Ireland before escaping back to space. Because it arrived moving at only about 8 miles (13 km) per second, barely above Earth's escape velocity, it lingered for more than a minute as it crossed the sky. (This explains why some witnesses mistook it for reentering spacecraft debris.)
Lyytinen says the brief atmospheric passage took its toll. As the meteoroid broke apart, its velocity dropped to just 5.7 miles (9.2 km) per second, too slow to make an escape back to space. Instead, it became a temporary satellite of Earth, looping completely around the globe before reentering the atmosphere — this time for good. "It looks now that the fireball witnessed 155 minutes later in U.S. and Canada, may have been one fragment of the British fireball, most probably the biggest one," Lyytinen explains.
YankeeClipper Member
Posts: 617 From: Dublin, Ireland Registered: Mar 2011
posted 10-03-2012 11:57 AM
He believes a large body grazed the upper atmosphere, dipping to an altitude of 33 miles (53 km) over Ireland before escaping back to space.
That might explain why, as I was tracking this fireball downward, it seemed to just vanish in mid-air well-above the horizon. At the time I assumed it had just slowed/burnt up and any debris fallen to earth in the darkness.
dom Member
Posts: 855 From: Registered: Aug 2001
posted 10-03-2012 12:39 PM
As someone who lives under its path, should I consider this a lucky escape! Does he mention what would have happened if it hit... are we taking about a Tunguska-sized impact or much smaller?
Blackarrow Member
Posts: 3118 From: Belfast, United Kingdom Registered: Feb 2002
posted 10-03-2012 05:19 PM
quote:Originally posted by Blackarrow: I doubt if this was meteor activity... Did any known satellite burn up last night?
I feel really stupid not correctly guessing that this was the first ever known example of a meteor grazing in and out of the atmosphere and becoming a temporary satellite of Earth for a single orbit. D'oh!
YankeeClipper Member
Posts: 617 From: Dublin, Ireland Registered: Mar 2011
posted 10-03-2012 06:01 PM
quote:Originally posted by dom: what would have happened if it hit... are we talking about a Tunguska-sized impact or much smaller?
Oh I don't know, depending on the location of the airburst/impact, a Tunguska-style event might have significantly improved the landscape especially in the Cavan border region
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm just going to put on my kevlar helmet, nomex flightsuit, kevlar/ceramic body armour, and climb into a bunker awaiting the flaming replies to that comment!
posted 09-22-2012 12:45 PM
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