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Author
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Topic: Vehicle Assembly Building high bay transfers
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LM-12
Member Posts: 3324
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 05-10-2016 11:24 AM
  
The Apollo 10 launch vehicle and spacecraft were both stacked in the Vehicle Assembly Building (VAB) High Bay 2, then rolled out to the pad. So, why was the Apollo 13 launch vehicle rolled around from High Bay 2 to High Bay 1 to stack the spacecraft?Photo KSC-69P-684 shows Apollo 13 (with a boilerplate spacecraft) on ML-3 passing by ML-1 during the roll around in August 1969. |
capcomespace
Member Posts: 27
From: france
Registered: Mar 2009
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posted 05-13-2016 04:31 AM
I think after the success of Apollo 11 landing, the race to the moon was down. In the 1969 summer, NASA assembled three Saturn V for win the race moon before the end of 1969, using the three bay of the VAB (Apollo 11 in bay 3, Apollo 12 in bay 1 and Apollo 13 in bay 2).After the land of Apollo 11, NASA decided to mothball the bay 2 and to mate the Saturn V in two bays only (1 and 3) to reduced money. In 1971, NASA decided to launch Saturn IB from LC-39 and mated the launcher on VAB using bay 1. The bay 2 will serve to mate Skylab himself. The last Apollo moon mission will be mated on bay 3. |
Space Cadet Carl
Member Posts: 225
From: Lake Orion, Michigan
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 05-13-2016 06:23 AM
Thank you. So, LUT "milkstool" modifications for the Saturn 1B Skylab launches were already happening inside the VAB in 1971? (Estes Rocketry made a great 1/70th kit of the 1B that I built in '69.)
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capcomespace
Member Posts: 27
From: france
Registered: Mar 2009
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posted 05-13-2016 06:56 AM
The decision to launch a "Workshop dry" and to launch Saturn IB from LC-39 are made in 1969 August. In November, Boeing and Chrysler made the first study to launch Saturn IB on LC-39. The modification to LUT 1 are made between 1971 May and September in VAB bay 1. |
AlanLawrie
Member Posts: 95
From: hitchin, herts, UK
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 05-13-2016 08:30 AM
I think you mixed up the High Bays for Apollos 11 and 12. They should be the other way around. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3324
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 05-13-2016 08:34 AM
So Apollo 13 was rolled around because High Bay 2 was being mothballed (until Skylab 1, that is). Interesting.Apollo 14 was stacked in High Bay 3. After Apollo 14 launched, Apollo 15 was moved from High Bay 1 to High Bay 3 in February 1971 to free up High Bay 1 for the Skylab program and the ML-1 modifications mentioned. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3324
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 05-13-2016 10:20 AM
The September 2, 1970 entry in SP-4011 "Skylab: A Chronology" has a table indicating a plan for which High Bay and other LC-39 facilities would be utilized for the Apollo 14 through Skylab 4 flights. That is the same day the Apollo 15 and 19 missions were cancelled. I am not sure if the facilities plan was made up before or after the flight cancellations. If before, then the two cancelled flights would also have been stacked in High Bay 3.
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LM-12
Member Posts: 3324
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 10-02-2019 07:01 AM
This July 1969 photo shows crowds near the VAB to view the Apollo 11 launch. The photo must be reversed, because I don't think the Mobile Launcher was ever in VAB High Bay 4. That has to be Apollo 13 in High Bay 2. |
oly
Member Posts: 971
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: Apr 2015
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posted 10-02-2019 08:17 AM
quote:
Originally posted by LM-12:
The photo must be reversed.
I think you are correct, it looks as if the vehicles parked in the foreground have steering wheels on the right hand side. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3324
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 10-02-2019 10:10 AM
ML-1 was stored in High Bay 2 for a while after ASTP. It was in High Bay 1 for the 1976 bicentennial event at the VAB. It was later stored at Pad 39B for a while.Was any Mobile Launcher ever placed in High Bay 4 at any time, including post-Apollo?
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capcomespace
Member Posts: 27
From: france
Registered: Mar 2009
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posted 10-02-2019 10:49 AM
High Bay 4 was not operational for ML Saturn V. Do have mount mechanisms on the floor? |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3324
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 10-02-2019 11:33 AM
I think you can see a yellow mount mechanism in a corner of High Bay 4 in this later photo when Discovery was stored there. |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 2983
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 10-02-2019 12:49 PM
Never before saw this particular shot, however, there is a LUT in High Bay 4, but there was no Saturn V being prepared in Bay 4 to my knowledge at the time 506 was launched to the moon. Actually, Bay 4 had not been used at all for any Saturn V preps as Apollo 12 was in Bay 3 with 13 in Bay 1 from my information. I'll have to check further on it, but perhaps the LUT in Bay 4 was LUT-3 for Apollo 13, however, it doesn't make sense if 13's first stage (S-1C) was stacked atop LUT-3 on June 18, 1969, just over a month before 11/AS-506 launched. And a day after 506 went to the moon, the S-II stage for 508 was stacked atop the first stage. Boy it was busy time at KSC in 1969, huh, and no wonder with four manned Apollo/Saturn V's going that year! |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3324
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 10-02-2019 01:39 PM
The Apollo 13 launch vehicle and a boilerplate spacecraft were stacked on ML-3 in High Bay 2. That Mobile Launcher was then rolled around on August 8, 1969 to High Bay 1, where the Apollo 13 spacecraft was stacked.Ken, the VAB crowd photo has to be a reversed image. |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 2983
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 10-02-2019 05:07 PM
I just can't figure out how that photo can be reversed, however, it looks like the crowd is looking around the VAB at Pad 39A. But if that was true, it just may/or has to be a reverse image, as implied by LM-12, as the people would not be able to see Pad A from that vantage point. It's a weird photo shot from Kennedy Parkway North, therefore, reversing it might explain it much better. As LM-12 pointed out, AS-508 was indeed transported, but without its actual flight spacecraft section, from Bay 2 to 3, that I had forgotten about earlier. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 43576
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-02-2019 05:34 PM
Here is the photo in question reversed:  |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 2983
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 10-02-2019 07:26 PM
Much better Robert! That would be LUT-3 we're seeing when 508 was being stacked in Bay 2, correct? Just one day after Apollo 11's launch, 508's S-II stage was stacked along with its S-IVB two weeks later. |
oly
Member Posts: 971
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: Apr 2015
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posted 10-02-2019 08:26 PM
Using the corners of the VAB and the 3 stacks rising from the roof of the building in the background to triangulate the position of the camera, it looks as if the cars and people are on what is identified as Utility Road, between Kennedy Parkway North, and the VAB. A similar position can be found using Google Maps Street view function. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3324
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 10-02-2019 09:07 PM
There is a crawler transporter parked outside High Bay 2. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3324
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 10-03-2019 12:30 AM
Here is an aerial photo of the VAB and the crowds nearby for the Apollo 15 launch.The wooden poles along Kennedy Parkway North in the Apollo 15 aerial photo seem to match the wooden poles seen in the Apollo 11 crowd photo. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3324
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 10-03-2019 09:08 PM
Confusing photo number 2:This VAB photo is undated, but it looks to me like an early Apollo image taken in the mid-sixties, maybe 1966 or 1967. It appears to show a Mobile Launcher in High Bay 2 on the west side of the VAB. But looks can be deceiving, because this photo is also reversed. The Mobile Launcher is actually in High Bay 1 on the east side of the VAB. |
sev8n
Member Posts: 236
From: Dallas TX USA
Registered: Jul 2012
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posted 10-04-2019 10:22 AM
Based on the orientation of the piping on the side of the MLP and the base of the LUT visible inside the VAB, plus the orientation of the windshield wiper arms on the cars, I do NOT believe the image is reversed.Also note the person in the forefront, lower left, has badges clipped on the left side of his shirt at the pocket, which is where I would expect to see them. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3324
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 10-04-2019 11:03 AM
quote:
Originally posted by sev8n:
I do NOT believe the image is reversed
Just to clarify, which of the three images are you referring to? |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3324
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 10-04-2019 10:28 PM
Here is a July 1969 view of ML-3 in High Bay 2 with all seven vertical doors open.
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LM-12
Member Posts: 3324
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 10-05-2019 11:05 AM
The shuttle Atlantis (STS-106) was transferred from High Bay 1 to High Bay 2 for a fit check in August 2000.
For the first time in Space Shuttle history, a fully stacked Shuttle - Atlantis - is rolling into the Vehicle Assembly Building's (VAB) high bay 2 on the building's west side. The VAB and nearby rock-paved crawlerway have recently undergone major modifications to provide Shuttle fliglht hardware more storage space and protection... |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3324
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 10-07-2019 09:27 PM
The photo caption for this Apollo 15 image is not correct. It is not the rollout on May 11, 1971. The vehicle is not leaving the VAB. It is entering VAB High Bay 3 after the transfer from High Bay 1 on Feb 2. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3324
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 10-08-2019 09:01 PM
The location of the louvers on either side of the four VAB vertical doors can be used to help determine if images like the Apollo 11 crowd photo and the undated VAB photo are reversed or not.
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capcomespace
Member Posts: 27
From: france
Registered: Mar 2009
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posted 10-09-2019 06:35 AM
Why bay 2 is not next to bay 1 but on the opposite side of the transfer aisle? |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3324
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 10-09-2019 06:55 AM
That is a good question. Maybe it has something to do with the overhead cranes. One 250-ton bridge crane moves over HB-1 and HB-2. The other 250-ton bridge crane moves over HB-3 and HB-4.The Tower A to Tower F designations seem odd. High Bay 2 is between Tower A and Tower B, for example. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3324
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 10-09-2019 01:39 PM
quote:
Originally posted by capcomespace:
High Bay 4 was not operational for ML Saturn V. Do have mount mechanisms on the floor?
Way back in 1975, some parachute tests for a Pioneer Venus probe were conducted in the VAB. I think that was in High Bay 4. If it was, then photo KSC-75P-0293 shows a Mobile Launcher mount mechanism in High Bay 4 back in 1975. |
capcomespace
Member Posts: 27
From: france
Registered: Mar 2009
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posted 10-10-2019 01:40 PM
Yes, mount mechanism was in High Bay 4 in 1979. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3324
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 10-10-2019 03:38 PM
Good photo. It would be interesting to see if anything was moved into High Bay 4 before the shuttle era. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3324
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 10-12-2019 04:37 AM
quote:
Originally posted by LM-12:
...was later stored at Pad 39B for a while.
These are some great aerial views of KSC taken in 1972 and 1978. The 1972 aerial photos include a Saturn V on the pad. So that is either Apollo 16 or Apollo 17. The 1978 aerial photos include views of ML-2 being dismantled north of the VAB, the ML-1 "milkstool" on Pad 39B and the MSS being dismantled at its park site. Looking closely at the photos, I can see why they had to store ML-1 at Pad 39B. It looks like that was the only place to store it at the time, until one of the ML parking spots near the VAB became available.
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LM-12
Member Posts: 3324
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 10-13-2019 04:41 AM
March 1979 photo KSC-79PC-0061 shows the ML-1 "milkstool" was back at the parking area north of the VAB. Also seen there are the ML-2 platform and some dismantled sections of LUT-2. MLP-1 (the former ML-3 platform) is in High Bay 3.The shuttle Columbia atop the 747 Shuttle Carrier Aircraft can be seen in the background parked at the shuttle landing facility. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3324
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 10-14-2019 09:41 AM
ML-1 was dismantled in 1983. I wonder where it was in this April 28, 1981 photo? That is Columbia returning to KSC after the STS-1 mission.
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capcomespace
Member Posts: 27
From: france
Registered: Mar 2009
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posted 10-15-2019 06:47 AM
I supose was in HB1 or 3. You can see the MLP 2 in construction at left (witout TSM on top)and MLP 1 (STS1) on the right on park lot. Since 1969, only 2 places in park lot near the VAB, on for construction and other for refurbisment.For the rollout to STS 2, ML1 was returned to park lot. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3324
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 10-15-2019 09:45 AM
You can see in this Apollo 11 rollout photo that the ML mount mechanisms have already been removed from the center position in the ML parking area. |
capcomespace
Member Posts: 27
From: france
Registered: Mar 2009
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posted 10-15-2019 12:54 PM
According Fred Robbins, the pictures over the KSC was taken th 12 february 1978. 3 days later, le MLP 1 entering in HB for TSM installation. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3324
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 10-15-2019 01:23 PM
That sounds about right. There is a March 1978 photo of the VAB parking area that shows ML-2 with LUT-2 completely dismantled. The other parking spot is empty. ML-1 would later be moved to that empty parking spot from Pad 39B.
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LM-12
Member Posts: 3324
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 10-15-2019 09:37 PM
You can still see the landing area of the slide wire egress system at Pad 39B in photo 1978-010. Those are terrific pictures. |
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