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Author
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Topic: Astronaut-inflicted spacecraft damage
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jklier
Member Posts: 63
From: Austin, Texas
Registered: Aug 2007
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posted 06-30-2020 04:37 PM
   
I've been re-reading "Countdown to a Moon Launch" and I came across something I must have missed the first time. The section that talks about astronaut personalities references an incident where an astronaut was asked to come in for a test causing him to miss a golfing trip. It goes on to say that during the test this individual intentionally scuffed up his suit and did some minor damage to the spacecraft during the test. Is this a verifiable incident and who was the astronaut in question? |
carmelo
Member Posts: 1057
From: Messina, Sicilia, Italia
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 07-03-2020 08:48 AM
Strange episode. But it is authentic? The whole thing seems absurd to me. |
Captain Apollo
Member Posts: 263
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 07-03-2020 09:05 AM
Ask the author? |
jklier
Member Posts: 63
From: Austin, Texas
Registered: Aug 2007
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posted 07-04-2020 10:57 AM
Yes, it does seem very odd. I can find no other reference to this online. That's why I brought it up here. Did the author choose not to name them or was the name absent in his source? I would think an incident like this would be in the public record. Would NASA omit something like this to avoid embarrassment? Here's a link to a preview of the book and page 91 for the story. Not that it matters but it was a ski trip rather than a golf trip like I first mentioned. |
ilbasso
Member Posts: 1526
From: Greensboro, NC USA
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 07-04-2020 05:39 PM
Hi all, Jonathan Ward here, author of the book. This incident was related to me by several workers from the Spacecraft Processing team, including a NASA employee. I did not name names in the book because I heard variations on the incident but I was not able to confirm the exact circumstances. The consensus of the story was that it was Wally Schirra who was frustrated at having to go through a test when he was hoping to be off on a weekend social event. It was well known that Wally's heart was not really in it for this flight, as he was already planning on leaving NASA when the flight was over. Wally allegedly banged and scratched some of the inside of the command module and damaged his training suit. The sources also said that he was so rude to the Rockwell test team that NASA told him he needed to apologize to them about the incident. He refused to do so, and it was up to Cunningham and Eisele to apologize to the test team on his behalf. (He didn't even go with his two crewmates to the meeting.) I asked Walt Cunningham if he could confirm the story. He looked me in the eye, paused for quite a while, thinking carefully, and finally said, "My feelings about him and how he treated us are in my book." Again, since I wasn't able to confirm the exact circumstances, I felt it best to leave it out of the written record. But I'm sharing it here for interest's sake—consider it as a "tale from the Rocket Ranch." |
Delta7
Member Posts: 1560
From: Bluffton IN USA
Registered: Oct 2007
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posted 07-04-2020 06:04 PM
As soon as I read this thread I thought "Wally Schirra." |
jklier
Member Posts: 63
From: Austin, Texas
Registered: Aug 2007
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posted 07-04-2020 06:23 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ilbasso:
Jonathan Ward here, author of the book....
Jonathan, thank you so much for posting and answering my questions. I had been wondering if you were possibly a member of this forum I'm enjoying your books as much on the second read as I did on the first. |
ilbasso
Member Posts: 1526
From: Greensboro, NC USA
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 07-04-2020 06:42 PM
Thank you so much for your kind comment! It’s hard to believe that the book came out 5 years ago. I’m honored and delighted that people are still reading it. It was such a wonderful experience to interview so many people who worked at KSC back in those amazing days. |
jklier
Member Posts: 63
From: Austin, Texas
Registered: Aug 2007
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posted 07-04-2020 06:48 PM
You are welcome. I must say when reading your books I'm quite envious of your collection of ID badges. How many do you have in your collection? |
David C
Member Posts: 1109
From: Lausanne
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted 07-05-2020 09:20 AM
I have the book, but it's still on my pending pile. Out of interest, did this alleged incident take place before or after the Apollo 1 spacecraft fire? |
jklier
Member Posts: 63
From: Austin, Texas
Registered: Aug 2007
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posted 07-05-2020 01:42 PM
This would have been during training for Apollo 7. Was the Apollo 7 crew already training before January 1967 when the fire took place? By the way, if you like his Countdown book you should also check out Rocket Ranch. |
David C
Member Posts: 1109
From: Lausanne
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted 07-05-2020 02:43 PM
Thanks, they're both sat on the pile. Obviously I need to expedite my reading! If I recall correctly, prior to the fire Wally's crew was prime for Apollo 2, then when that was cancelled they replaced McDivitt's crew as back up for Apollo 1. I'm just thinking that if the incident was post-fire then Wally's behaviour becomes sort of understandable, rather than just an outrageous lack of professionalism. |
ejectr
Member Posts: 1782
From: Killingly, CT
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 07-06-2020 08:44 AM
Not understandable to me in any case. A golf game compared to the nation's space race to the moon? You're one of the selected few amongst millions. I don't care what your future plans are. DO your job! No excuse for it. My only hope is that it is a "story" with no bias. |
ilbasso
Member Posts: 1526
From: Greensboro, NC USA
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 07-06-2020 09:51 AM
Another of the stories about early Apollo spacecraft prep and testing was that the commanders of the Apollo 1 prime and backup crew had different opinions on how they wanted the inside of the CM outfitted. The stories I heard specifically focused on the color of the velcro or netting inside the cockpit! One commander wanted his to be white, the other wanted blue, and the backup commander allegedly insisted that some of it be changed out whenever his crew was running a test in the Apollo 1 CM. Again, I wasn’t able to get enough confirmation on this to merit inclusion in the book, but it was quite a surprise to hear that. It apparently was also pretty common for the commander to request an insignia (like his school or academy insignia) be specially added to a hand controller or other device inside the CM. Again, hearsay...maybe someone who has collected some of the controllers that came on the market in the past several years could comment on that? quote:
Originally posted by jklier:
How many do you have in your collection?
EDIT: I just counted in my database. 994 badges, plus a few that I know I haven't added yet. I believe that Bill Sawchuck (413 Is In) is the undisputed King of the Badges! |
Delta7
Member Posts: 1560
From: Bluffton IN USA
Registered: Oct 2007
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posted 07-06-2020 01:01 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ilbasso:
Another of the stories about early Apollo spacecraft prep and testing was that the commanders of the Apollo 1 prime and backup crew had different opinions on how they wanted the inside of the CM outfitted.
Jim McDivitt? (As Michael Collins put it in Carrying The Fire "His thoroughness was legendary.") |
David C
Member Posts: 1109
From: Lausanne
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted 07-06-2020 02:40 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ejectr:
Not understandable to me in any case.
What I was hinting at is that if it was post fire, then Wally's viewpoint could very well have been that those guys were some of the ones responsible for killing his buddies. So, if that was the case then yes, I would call it understandable.That said, torquing off guys that your life depends on isn't clever, and it sounds pre-fire to me. And it wasn't a golf game, not that it matters at all, but better to keep the story straight. quote:
Originally posted by Delta7:
Jim McDivitt?
I always thought Jim was very smart and thorough; but not petty. |
ejectr
Member Posts: 1782
From: Killingly, CT
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 07-06-2020 04:41 PM
Pardon me, "a social event." |
jklier
Member Posts: 63
From: Austin, Texas
Registered: Aug 2007
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posted 07-07-2020 11:56 AM
quote:
Originally posted by ilbasso:
I just counted in my database. 994 badges, plus a few that I know I haven't added yet.
What would you consider to be the rarest, hardest to find badge in your collection? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 44208
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 07-07-2020 12:04 PM
If I might suggest, in order to keep thread on topic, that discussion about badge collecting be redirected to our thread on the subject: NASA/contractor ID badges and passes. |
Delta7
Member Posts: 1560
From: Bluffton IN USA
Registered: Oct 2007
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posted 07-07-2020 01:56 PM
quote:
Originally posted by David C:
I always thought Jim was very smart and thorough; but not petty.
McDivitt could have had a valid reason for doing so. Not necessarily petty. |
drifting to the right
Member Posts: 120
From: SW La.
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted 07-07-2020 04:17 PM
Well, this wasn't quite spacecraft damage, but a senior partner in our radiology group related a story to me several years ago. He was an undergraduate in engineering at an east Texas college when they were assigned projects of experiments to be done on upcoming space flights. This was in the mid-60's. Each project was set up for a review by the visiting group of astronauts. One which involved some sort of small metal structure caught an astronaut's eye, and he asked about it suspiciously. The young engineering student gave his detailed explanation, after which he noted that it was already scheduled for an upcoming flight. "No it's not!" replied the astronaut as he picked it up and twisted it into a pretzel. |
David C
Member Posts: 1109
From: Lausanne
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted 07-09-2020 04:20 AM
The trouble with all of these tales is that they’re one sided, unverified, anonymous anecdotes. We have to also remember the objective of Gemini and Apollo. Man, Moon and return by end of decade. That’s it. There was continual pressure to fly what experimenters themselves felt were worthy projects, but which were of absolutely no relevence to that objective. In fact they often detracted from getting the real job done.So that astronaut‘s reaction, if, and I stress if, that‘s what actually happened - whilst apparently dramatic, may have been reasonable. Don‘t forget that the crew had the final word on such in flight experiments. quote:
Originally posted by Delta7:
McDivitt could have had a valid reason for doing so. Not necessarily petty.
Quite so; if, and it‘s a big if, that actually was McDivitt. |
Henry Heatherbank
Member Posts: 257
From: Adelaide, South Australia
Registered: Apr 2005
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posted 07-09-2020 05:13 AM
Well McDivitt is still around. Would he field the question if asked? |
drifting to the right
Member Posts: 120
From: SW La.
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted 07-09-2020 08:20 AM
I agree with David C, related what I was told, and was feebly attempting to lighten up the discussion, in these sensitive times. Cheers, all! |
carmelo
Member Posts: 1057
From: Messina, Sicilia, Italia
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 07-09-2020 10:16 AM
Cunningham and Eisele, mostly Cunningham, paid dearly for the behavior of Wally. |
Buel
Member Posts: 686
From: UK
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 07-09-2020 06:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by drifting to the right:
...attempting to lighten up the discussion, in these sensitive times.
Well I enjoyed it!! |
drifting to the right
Member Posts: 120
From: SW La.
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted 07-09-2020 08:32 PM
Thanks. Radiologists in general, including my old partner, are not well known for confabulating, although we did hedge often.  |
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