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  Apollo 14: Flying Fred Haise as LMP to Fra Mauro

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Author Topic:   Apollo 14: Flying Fred Haise as LMP to Fra Mauro
Fra Mauro
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Posts: 1624
From: Bethpage, N.Y.
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 06-02-2009 12:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fra Mauro   Click Here to Email Fra Mauro     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Since Apollo 14 was re-targeted to Fra Mauro after the Apollo 13 mission, would it have been fair to consider putting Fred Haise in the lunar module pilot (LMP) seat for that flight? According to Gene Cernan, Deke Slayton was not too happy with Mitchell before the flight anyway.

KSCartist
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Posts: 2913
From: Titusville, FL USA
Registered: Feb 2005

posted 06-02-2009 02:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KSCartist   Click Here to Email KSCartist     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A fair question. But my guess would be that Shepard had trained with Mitchell for the mission and Shepard carried a lot of weight with Slayton.

cddfspace
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Posts: 609
From: Morris County, NJ, USA
Registered: Jan 2006

posted 06-02-2009 02:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cddfspace   Click Here to Email cddfspace     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't think Freddo would have gone for it. He was slotted (and performed in that function) to back up Young on 16 so he would rotate out and command Apollo 19.

garymilgrom
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Posts: 1966
From: Atlanta, GA
Registered: Feb 2007

posted 06-02-2009 02:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for garymilgrom   Click Here to Email garymilgrom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think we need to consider Fred's personal situation. He returned to Earth with some kind of medical problem after a near-death experience. Would he have wanted to "try again" so soon?

I don't know, and I'm not questioning Fred's abilities or motivations in any way. Just an interesting thought.

Michael Davis
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Posts: 530
From: Houston, Texas
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 06-02-2009 03:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Michael Davis   Click Here to Email Michael Davis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Remember, Slayton originally wanted the Shepard-Mitchell-Roosa team to take Apollo 13. This was overruled for a number of reasons, but the crew was placed together well in advance of the actual A13 mission. It would be tough to break up the crew since there was no particular reason for Haise to replace Mitchell. Mitchell certainly had plenty of time to train since the A13 accident investigation and redesign delayed A14 for a very long time.

Plus, would you offer Haise another ride to Fra Mauro without doing so for Lovell and Swigert? Or would you pick Mattingly over Swigert since he should have been onboard A13 except for the measles scare?

It was all probably much simpler to keep the A14 crew together and try to get Swigert and Haise on some of the later missions. Swigert then lost his shot to fly again due to his lying to Slayton over stamps and Haise lost his chance with the A19 cancellation.

Delta7
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From: Bluffton IN USA
Registered: Oct 2007

posted 06-02-2009 04:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Delta7   Click Here to Email Delta7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Slayton did apparently consider replacing Mitchell on Apollo 14 for,a couple of reasons including the fact that he was balking about sticking around to serve as Apollo 16 backup LMP after flying Apollo 14. However, I believe the idea was to put Joe Engle (Mitchell's backup) in that slot.

Michael Davis
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From: Houston, Texas
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 06-02-2009 06:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Michael Davis   Click Here to Email Michael Davis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Delta 7 is right - Slayton threatend to pull Mitchell from A14 if he carried through on his stated desire to leave NASA immediately after the flight. But Slayton would have stuck with the established plan - if a primary crewmember was removed for any reason, he would be replaced with the backup, not someone from entirely outside of the rotation. Otherwise it would probably be even more difficult to ask someone to train for over a year as backup on a mission he almost cetainly was not going to fly.

Of course none of that would probably have applied to anyone with the last name of Shepard.

Fra Mauro
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Posts: 1624
From: Bethpage, N.Y.
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 06-02-2009 10:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fra Mauro   Click Here to Email Fra Mauro     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just posed the question since it is enjoyable to play with crew scenarios. I suggested flying Haise again, since he was very familiar with the EVA plans. Lovell had previously stated he was retiring and it was unlikely that Swigert (backup) would get another flight so soon. Slayton was also concerned that Mitchell's interest in ESP would distract him from the meat and potatoes of the flight. The precedent had already been set by Slayton of braking up a crew and also backup crews.

ilbasso
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Posts: 1522
From: Greensboro, NC USA
Registered: Feb 2006

posted 06-03-2009 12:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ilbasso   Click Here to Email ilbasso     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Since Shepard was such a strong backer of Ed Mitchell, and Shepard and Slayton were so tight, I can only imagine that Shepard's reaction to pulling Mitchell from the crew would have been, "Over my dead body!"

John Charles
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Posts: 342
From: Houston, Texas, USA
Registered: Jun 2004

posted 06-06-2009 02:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for John Charles     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fra Mauro:
Since Apollo 14 was re-targeted to Fra Mauro after the Apollo 13 mission, would it have been fair to consider putting Fred Haise in the lunar module pilot (LMP) seat for that flight?
Interesting to speculate, but I am not sure what would have been gained by doing so. You and other posters have noted some reported questions about Mitchell's attitude, but setting those aside, Haise never made it to Fra Mauro, so his knowledge of the landing site and of the lunar surface activities were limited to the same training that Mitchell received. Replacing Mitchell with Haise might have reduced the training load on Haise and on his trainers, but Shepard still needed their full attention.

Crew assignments were not sacred, certainly, and there is evidence that Slayton occasionally got creative in rejuggling them as necessary, but in this case, and from an outsider's perspective, I don't see any benefit to replacing Mitchell with Haise.

------------------
John Charles
Houston, Texas

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