Author
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Topic: Apollo 14: Flying Fred Haise as LMP to Fra Mauro
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Fra Mauro Member Posts: 1624 From: Bethpage, N.Y. Registered: Jul 2002
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posted 06-02-2009 12:52 PM
Since Apollo 14 was re-targeted to Fra Mauro after the Apollo 13 mission, would it have been fair to consider putting Fred Haise in the lunar module pilot (LMP) seat for that flight? According to Gene Cernan, Deke Slayton was not too happy with Mitchell before the flight anyway. |
KSCartist Member Posts: 2913 From: Titusville, FL USA Registered: Feb 2005
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posted 06-02-2009 02:09 PM
A fair question. But my guess would be that Shepard had trained with Mitchell for the mission and Shepard carried a lot of weight with Slayton. |
cddfspace Member Posts: 609 From: Morris County, NJ, USA Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 06-02-2009 02:34 PM
I don't think Freddo would have gone for it. He was slotted (and performed in that function) to back up Young on 16 so he would rotate out and command Apollo 19. |
garymilgrom Member Posts: 1966 From: Atlanta, GA Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 06-02-2009 02:48 PM
I think we need to consider Fred's personal situation. He returned to Earth with some kind of medical problem after a near-death experience. Would he have wanted to "try again" so soon?I don't know, and I'm not questioning Fred's abilities or motivations in any way. Just an interesting thought. |
Michael Davis Member Posts: 530 From: Houston, Texas Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 06-02-2009 03:02 PM
Remember, Slayton originally wanted the Shepard-Mitchell-Roosa team to take Apollo 13. This was overruled for a number of reasons, but the crew was placed together well in advance of the actual A13 mission. It would be tough to break up the crew since there was no particular reason for Haise to replace Mitchell. Mitchell certainly had plenty of time to train since the A13 accident investigation and redesign delayed A14 for a very long time.Plus, would you offer Haise another ride to Fra Mauro without doing so for Lovell and Swigert? Or would you pick Mattingly over Swigert since he should have been onboard A13 except for the measles scare? It was all probably much simpler to keep the A14 crew together and try to get Swigert and Haise on some of the later missions. Swigert then lost his shot to fly again due to his lying to Slayton over stamps and Haise lost his chance with the A19 cancellation.
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Delta7 Member Posts: 1527 From: Bluffton IN USA Registered: Oct 2007
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posted 06-02-2009 04:55 PM
Slayton did apparently consider replacing Mitchell on Apollo 14 for,a couple of reasons including the fact that he was balking about sticking around to serve as Apollo 16 backup LMP after flying Apollo 14. However, I believe the idea was to put Joe Engle (Mitchell's backup) in that slot. |
Michael Davis Member Posts: 530 From: Houston, Texas Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 06-02-2009 06:28 PM
Delta 7 is right - Slayton threatend to pull Mitchell from A14 if he carried through on his stated desire to leave NASA immediately after the flight. But Slayton would have stuck with the established plan - if a primary crewmember was removed for any reason, he would be replaced with the backup, not someone from entirely outside of the rotation. Otherwise it would probably be even more difficult to ask someone to train for over a year as backup on a mission he almost cetainly was not going to fly.Of course none of that would probably have applied to anyone with the last name of Shepard. |
Fra Mauro Member Posts: 1624 From: Bethpage, N.Y. Registered: Jul 2002
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posted 06-02-2009 10:48 PM
Just posed the question since it is enjoyable to play with crew scenarios. I suggested flying Haise again, since he was very familiar with the EVA plans. Lovell had previously stated he was retiring and it was unlikely that Swigert (backup) would get another flight so soon. Slayton was also concerned that Mitchell's interest in ESP would distract him from the meat and potatoes of the flight. The precedent had already been set by Slayton of braking up a crew and also backup crews. |
ilbasso Member Posts: 1522 From: Greensboro, NC USA Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 06-03-2009 12:41 PM
Since Shepard was such a strong backer of Ed Mitchell, and Shepard and Slayton were so tight, I can only imagine that Shepard's reaction to pulling Mitchell from the crew would have been, "Over my dead body!" |
John Charles Member Posts: 342 From: Houston, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 06-06-2009 02:53 AM
quote: Originally posted by Fra Mauro: Since Apollo 14 was re-targeted to Fra Mauro after the Apollo 13 mission, would it have been fair to consider putting Fred Haise in the lunar module pilot (LMP) seat for that flight?
Interesting to speculate, but I am not sure what would have been gained by doing so. You and other posters have noted some reported questions about Mitchell's attitude, but setting those aside, Haise never made it to Fra Mauro, so his knowledge of the landing site and of the lunar surface activities were limited to the same training that Mitchell received. Replacing Mitchell with Haise might have reduced the training load on Haise and on his trainers, but Shepard still needed their full attention.Crew assignments were not sacred, certainly, and there is evidence that Slayton occasionally got creative in rejuggling them as necessary, but in this case, and from an outsider's perspective, I don't see any benefit to replacing Mitchell with Haise. ------------------ John Charles Houston, Texas |