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Author
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Topic: LM-3 altitude chamber run and Apollo 8
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LM-12
Member Posts: 3324
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 11-03-2018 08:18 PM
  
The National Archives has this description of a Lunar Module-3 (LM-3) altitude chamber run on Sept. 3, 1968 with Buzz Aldrin and Fred Haise, who were on the Apollo 8 backup crew.Weren't Aldrin and Haise training for the alternate C-Prime mission by that time, and wasn't LM-3 assigned to the D-mission with the McDivitt crew? |
heng44
Member Posts: 3413
From: Netherlands
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 11-04-2018 06:31 AM
That is indeed odd. The crew activity planning guide mentions unmanned altitude chamber runs with LM-3 on September 3 through 6. The crew training summary has no chamber test on September 3, but lists the following: - August 31, 1968 - backup crew (simulated)
- September 5, 1968 - prime crew (simulated)
- September 21, 1968 - backup crew
- September 23, 1968 - prime crew
- September 26, 1968 - backup crew
- September 27, 1968 - prime crew
Perhaps Aldrin and Haise assisted in the chamber tests for LM-3 because of their expertise on LM systems?It was probably not uncommon for others to assist in these tests. The training summary for Apollo 11 mentions an altitude chamber test with CSM-107 on March 27, 1969, with astronauts Anders, Irwin and Engle. |
Chuckster01
Member Posts: 942
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: Jan 2014
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posted 11-04-2018 07:04 AM
Did all LMs go through so many vacuum chamber tests before flight? |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3324
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 11-04-2018 07:41 AM
The training summary has the Apollo 9 prime and backup crews in the simulators (LMS 2 and CMS 3) on September 3.Also worth noting, Haise had been on the support crew for the D-mission before being named to the backup crew for Apollo 8. But wasn't C-Prime mission training the priority after mid-August 1968? Haise has described the Apollo 8 training cycle as "the toughest training cycle I went through of the four in Apollo as far as the time squeeze to get ready" so I am a bit surprised that he and Aldrin would have been picked to do the LM-3 altitude chamber test. |
heng44
Member Posts: 3413
From: Netherlands
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 11-04-2018 08:38 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Chuckster01:
Did all LMs go through so many vacuum chamber tests before flight?
Yes, usually four tests. Both prime and backup crew did one simulated test at sea level atmosphere and one test in vacuum. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3324
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 11-05-2018 05:17 AM
quote:
Originally posted by heng44:
Perhaps Aldrin and Haise assisted in the chamber tests for LM-3 because of their expertise on LM systems?
The training summary has a description of the training accomplished by Haise at the time he joined the Mission E backup crew, which includes this: Followed LM-3 S/C at GAEC to present. Re-wrote TCP's for altitude chamber. GAEC is Grumman Aircraft Engineering Corporation. Not sure what TCP stands for. Something about training procedures, perhaps. |
heng44
Member Posts: 3413
From: Netherlands
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 11-05-2018 11:17 AM
That makes sense, so that probably explains his involvement. From Fred Haise's oral history: I ended up as a member of the Apollo 9 team under Jim McDivitt. I was a member of the support crew, which we had in those days. And Jim was, I think, worried more about the — getting the LM ready, so he assigned Ed Mitchell and I to that task, to follow the LM through early testing to get them ready to ship to the Cape and, ensuingly, testing that was done at the Cape. And — so that was my exclusive responsibility, was to make sure LM-2 was ready and then, of course, at a point we decided LM-2 was too far afield with the mods [modifications], so we jumped to LM-3 as the real vehicle that ended up flying Apollo 9. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3324
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 11-05-2018 09:43 PM
Some relevant dates: the announcement that Haise had been assigned to the backup crew of the third manned Apollo flight (E-mission) was made on August 8, and the new C-prime mission was announced on August 19.
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LM-12
Member Posts: 3324
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 11-06-2018 09:47 AM
When Haise was assigned in November 1967 to the support crew of the second manned Apollo flight, was the plan to fly LM-2 on AS-504 with the McDivitt crew?(AS-503 was planned as an unmanned flight at that point.) |
heng44
Member Posts: 3413
From: Netherlands
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 11-09-2018 02:33 AM
LM-2 was scheduled for AS-206, which was canceled after Apollo 5. The McDivitt crew would fly LM-3 on AS-504 and the Borman crew LM-4 on AS-505. After Apollo 6 in April 1968, the unmanned AS-503 mission was changed to a manned mission. So McDivitt/LM-3 would fly on AS-503 and Borman/LM-4 on AS-504. Of course that all changed in August 1968. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3324
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 11-14-2018 01:27 PM
Even earlier than that, in December 1966, it seems the plan was to fly LM-2 on a dual mission. From "Chariots for Apollo" in Chapter 8: In early December, NASA reluctantly surrendered its plans for launching the first manned Apollo flight before the end of 1966. Mueller and Seamans then reshuffled the flight schedule, delaying AS-204 until February 1967 and scrubbing the scheduled second mission. Experimenters who had planned to place their wares aboard Schirra's spacecraft were brushed aside. Following AS 204, NASA planned to fly the lunar module alone and then a manned Block II command and service module, No. 101, in August 1967 to rendezvous with unmanned LM-2, the LM being lofted into orbit by a Saturn IB in a mission dubbed AS-205/208. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3324
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 11-16-2018 02:12 PM
Also in December 1966, the crew for the third manned Apollo mission was announced: Frank Borman, Michael Collins and William Anders on AS-503. So it would seem that AS-503 was first planned as a manned mission in December 1966, then an unmanned mission in November 1967, and then back to a manned mission in May 1968. |
heng44
Member Posts: 3413
From: Netherlands
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 11-19-2018 02:31 PM
Well, this mystery is solved. A friend at JSC was able to get me the film and it doesn't show Aldrin and Haise, but Conrad and Bean. See snapshots below. Entirely logical, because they were the backups for Apollo 9.The film number is the one listed in the shotlist and all the scenes match the shotlist exactly. Only the astronauts are identified incorrectly. Strange, because their names can be read on the suits. Whoever made that shotlist goofed enormously.  
This is identified in the shotlist as "Astronaut Aldrin sitting down," but it is clearly Conrad. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3324
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 11-19-2018 10:23 PM
Hard to believe that error slipped through the cracks. Too bad it wasn't Haise and Aldrin. That would have been some rather unique footage. Thanks for following up on this, Ed. |
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