Space News
space history and artifacts articles

Messages
space history discussion forums

Sightings
worldwide astronaut appearances

Resources
selected space history documents

  collectSPACE: Messages
  Mercury - Gemini - Apollo
  Apollo 12 lunar surface TV camera(s)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Apollo 12 lunar surface TV camera(s)
SpaceDust
Member

Posts: 115
From: Louisville, KY
Registered: Mar 2006

posted 11-25-2007 08:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpaceDust     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've been watching Spacecraft Film's Apollo 12 DVD set. In one part, mission director Chester Lee talks about how they ran EMI tests on the color TV camera that was to be used on the lunar surface.

During those tests, black streaks were noticed across the screen. They said they would begin loading a black and white camera on to the lunar module's MESA if the problems continued.

Was this camera ever loaded and if so, why wasn't it used when the color camera failed when it was pointed at the sun?

spacecraft films
Member

Posts: 802
From: Columbus, OH USA
Registered: Jun 2002

posted 11-25-2007 09:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spacecraft films   Click Here to Email spacecraft films     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A backup camera was not included on Apollo 12. The discussion was such that the black and white camera was being considered in substitution for the color camera before the mission, but the color camera flew rather than the black and white.

The black and white camera was included on later missions as a result of Apollo 12 as a backup. In addition to the lunar module color TV camera on the MESA, a black and white TV camera was stowed in the lunar module cabin on Apollo 13.

Explorer1
Member

Posts: 202
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Registered: Apr 2019

posted 04-09-2020 09:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Explorer1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
On Apollo 12, it sounds like the lens of the color TV camera came in contact with the sun. What exactly happened? Was the camera turned on? And is it true Alan Bean used a hammer to rap on the camera in the hope that it might activate?

Also, what was done to protect the television cameras carried aboard Apollo 13 and 14 so that the same problem would not occur?

Editor's note: Threads merged.

oly
Member

Posts: 999
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: Apr 2015

posted 04-09-2020 09:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for oly   Click Here to Email oly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Source: Wikipedia
Astronaut Alan Bean inadvertently pointed the camera at the Sun while preparing to mount it on the tripod.

The Sun's extreme brightness burned out the video pickup tube, rendering the camera useless. When the camera was returned to Earth, it was shipped to Westinghouse, and they were able to get an image on the section of the tube that wasn't damaged.

Procedures were re-written in order to prevent such damage in the future, including the addition of a lens cap to protect the tube when the camera was re-positioned off the MESA.

Explorer1
Member

Posts: 202
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Registered: Apr 2019

posted 04-09-2020 02:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Explorer1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was wondering about whether the camera had a lens cap or not. Almost impossible to believe that it would not have had a lens cap. Was the lens protected in some other way that it did not need a lens cap?

oly
Member

Posts: 999
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: Apr 2015

posted 04-09-2020 03:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for oly   Click Here to Email oly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Weight. A lens cap has weight, and every item carried on top of the Saturn V added to the launch weight. As the whole program went through a weight reduction exercise, especially the Lunar Module, every item carried needed to be justified.

Additionally, the inclusion of a lens cap requires additional actions and training to operate and stow or discard such item. If every camera carried on board had a lens cap, there would need to be a procedure to stow the item, secure it to either the parent item or affix a strip of Velcro so it can be stowed elsewhere, or placed in a pocket so it does not float about the spacecraft and get misplaced. Each procedure then adds to the weight of checklists and manuals.

Mike Dixon
Member

Posts: 1436
From: Kew, Victoria, Australia
Registered: May 2003

posted 04-09-2020 06:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mike Dixon   Click Here to Email Mike Dixon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A lens cap weighs what?

oly
Member

Posts: 999
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: Apr 2015

posted 04-09-2020 08:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for oly   Click Here to Email oly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A lens cap weighs about the same as a comparable sized section of the alloy material that the lunar module was constructed from. The same material that Grumman spent a lot of time and money mechanically and chemically milling down to the thinnest cross section possible, yet maintain the required structural strength.

A lens cap also weighs about the same as many as many other items that were left out of the equipment list on the earlier Apollo missions, until the Saturn V, CSM and LM performance had been utilized, and the latter performance improvements and mission economic use of fuel and energy had been established and streamlined, at which point additional weight was allowed to be carried during missions.

When you study the construction of the Apollo hardware it becomes evident that weight reduction was engineered into almost every single asset carried to the moon. Which is why I find it amazing that so many flags, caches, and other memorabilia was carried on the Apollo missions.

Mike Dixon
Member

Posts: 1436
From: Kew, Victoria, Australia
Registered: May 2003

posted 04-09-2020 09:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mike Dixon   Click Here to Email Mike Dixon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I take your point, but I won't accept a lens cap would have weighed more than 10 to 15 grams at most. It would not have been a factor.

oly
Member

Posts: 999
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: Apr 2015

posted 04-09-2020 10:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for oly   Click Here to Email oly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There are films showing astronauts playing with lens caps inside the command module in zero gravity, so lens caps were a part of the program.

My original point was that where possible, weight was removed, particularly from the lunar module and the equipment flown on board.

Additionally, to include the lens cap on a lunar surface camera would introduce the additional training for astronauts to go through the steps of dealing with the cap, and if the cap was to be reused during the mission, the training to reinstall the cap while wearing a pressure suit and gloved hands.

Re-installing a lens cap also introduces the risk of contaminating the camera lens by contacting the lens with a glove.

I also know of photographers who do not use lens caps, period. or only use them on lenses that are stored away, never using them on camera. The cap is not critical to the camera operation.

It is apparent that following the Apollo 12 TV camera incident, the addition of a lens cap was warranted, and the performance of the lunar module had been tested and established, so that weight/performance was better understood.

I have known glider pilots leave caps, covers, and non-essential items behind on flights to conserve weight, Aircraft engineers to strip non-essential weight, including paint, from aircraft due to performance, and it is common for Formula 1 engineers to manage weight down to micrograms to gain performance.

I have personally stripped equipment from aircraft for performance improvements that weigh less than a standard lens cap.

quote:
Originally posted by Explorer1:
I was wondering about whether the camera had a lens cap or not. Almost impossible to believe that it would not have had a lens cap.
It is easy to imagine that the camera did not have a lens cap due to engineering planning.

Space Cadet Carl
Member

Posts: 229
From: Lake Orion, Michigan
Registered: Feb 2006

posted 04-10-2020 06:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Space Cadet Carl   Click Here to Email Space Cadet Carl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I watched live that morning, before school started, when Alan Bean accidentally pointed that camera at the sun. You could tell exactly what was happening and I remember shouting at my television as he was doing it!

Explorer1
Member

Posts: 202
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Registered: Apr 2019

posted 04-11-2020 05:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Explorer1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I really appreciate your posting. Do you remember what you were saying as you were shouting at your television and what grade you were in at the time?

And also, if Bean hadn't set up the television camera yet what other television camera was there that you were able to see what was happening?

Explorer1
Member

Posts: 202
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Registered: Apr 2019

posted 04-12-2020 12:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Explorer1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Has anyone heard of Bean using a hammer of some kind to try to reactivate the camera?

Mike Dixon
Member

Posts: 1436
From: Kew, Victoria, Australia
Registered: May 2003

posted 04-12-2020 12:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mike Dixon   Click Here to Email Mike Dixon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I seem to remember reading that a live TV camera even on Apollo 11 was something of a "last minute" decision to include on the mission. Was that true? The leap to colour on Apollo 12 was breathtaking, even for the few moments we witnessed.

oly
Member

Posts: 999
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: Apr 2015

posted 04-12-2020 01:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for oly   Click Here to Email oly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Explorer1:
Has anyone heard of Bean using a hammer of some kind to try to reactivate the camera?
Alan Bean talks about using his hammer to tap the TV camera in the Apollo 12 Lunar Surface Journal transcript of the first EVA.
116:15:35 Gibson: Okay, Al, we see no change down here. Why don't you press on?

116:15:40 Bean: Okay, let me try another f-stop, the other way. How's that?

116:15:48 Gibson: There's no change down here, Al. (Pause) That's coming in there, now, Al. Okay, what change did you make?

116:16:02 Bean: I hit it on the top with my hammer. I figured we didn't have a thing to lose.

116:16:08 Gibson: Skillful fix, Al.

116:16:09 Bean: I hit it on the top with this hammer I've got. (Responding to Gibson) Yeah, that's skilled craftsmanship.

Explorer1
Member

Posts: 202
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Registered: Apr 2019

posted 04-12-2020 07:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Explorer1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I guess the question is how long was it before that "fix" gave out?

oly
Member

Posts: 999
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: Apr 2015

posted 04-12-2020 07:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for oly   Click Here to Email oly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Dixon:
I seem to remember reading that a live TV camera even on Apollo 11 was something of a "last minute" decision to include on the mission. Was that true?
NASA had flown TV cameras on all previous Apollo missions leading up to Apollo 11 so it would appear that television was a part of the program plan. From TVTechnology:
Early on in NASA's project time table, no real thought had been given to color transmissions. In fact, during the early─and even mid-60s─color television was pretty much ignored by everyone. Few people had color receivers, and the networks and local broadcasters transmitted so little color then that ownership of a color set was hard to justify. That finally began to change in 1966 when NBC launched a full color schedule.

Stanley Lebar, the Westinghouse project manager in charge of the Apollo camera development program, recalled that some people in the project were mindful of this sea change and began to consider adding color to the imaging gear they had been contracted to build.

However, just as the television camera carried by Armstrong was no ordinary monochrome model, a strictly off-the-shelf approach wouldn't work for color pickup from space either.

Explorer1
Member

Posts: 202
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Registered: Apr 2019

posted 04-12-2020 08:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Explorer1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Dixon:
...something of a "last minute" decision to include on the mission.
Mike Dixon, apparently you were right about the last minute decision. Here is a quote from the Apollo 12 Lunar Surface Journal link that Oly posted:
It is interesting that only two weeks before the Apollo 12 launch date, it was not crystal clear that the LM camera would be a color camera, as the 'old' AP11 b/w camera is also mentioned in the press release.

oly
Member

Posts: 999
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: Apr 2015

posted 04-12-2020 09:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for oly   Click Here to Email oly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Explorer1:
I guess the question is how long was it before that "fix" gave out?
The answer can be found here.

Incidentally, the camera was the same color camera which had been used in the command module on Apollo 10.

Colin Anderton
Member

Posts: 163
From: Great Britain
Registered: Jan 2005

posted 04-12-2020 10:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Colin Anderton   Click Here to Email Colin Anderton     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It seems that Apollo 12 also carried the same camera that the Apollo 11 crew used for their in-flight broadcasts; it had the same white dot near lower centre.

oly
Member

Posts: 999
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: Apr 2015

posted 04-12-2020 10:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for oly   Click Here to Email oly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The link I posted above details that the camera was the same color camera used in the command module on Apollo 10 and 11, though it had been modified for use on the lunar surface on Apollo 12.

Space Cadet Carl
Member

Posts: 229
From: Lake Orion, Michigan
Registered: Feb 2006

posted 04-12-2020 10:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Space Cadet Carl   Click Here to Email Space Cadet Carl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Explorer1:
...if Bean hadn't set up the television camera yet what other television camera was there that you were able to see what was happening?
Watch the video of the incident. The camera was still on live when he pulled it out of the MESA and you can clearly see him panning the camera up into the sun. It was obvious to see live right when it happened.

As far as what I was shouting, my 14 year old voice was saying: "The sun!!!! Watch the sun!!!" Even though I was only 14, I knew that old-fashioned Vidicon tubes would be destroyed by brilliant light.

Colin Anderton
Member

Posts: 163
From: Great Britain
Registered: Jan 2005

posted 04-12-2020 10:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Colin Anderton   Click Here to Email Colin Anderton     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by oly:
...had been modified for use on the lunar surface on Apollo 12.
I am referring to the camera used on Apollo 12 in the command module, not the one they used on the lunar surface.

oly
Member

Posts: 999
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: Apr 2015

posted 04-12-2020 11:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for oly   Click Here to Email oly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Colin, refer to pages 25 and 26 of Apollo Television by Bill Wood:
After the successful operation of the Westinghouse field sequential color cameras in Apollo 10 and 11 Command and Service Modules the decision was made to use it on the lunar module for Apollo 12. Westinghouse took the camera used on Apollo 10 and modified it for use in the vacuum of space on the surface of the Moon.

The modifications included painting exterior white for thermal control, substituting coated metal gears for plastic gears in the color-wheel drive mechanism, provision for internal heat conduction paths to the camera outer shell for radiation and use of a special bearing lubricant. In addition, the Apollo 12 Command Module TV was the same camera flown in the Apollo 11 Command Module.

Space Cadet Carl
Member

Posts: 229
From: Lake Orion, Michigan
Registered: Feb 2006

posted 04-12-2020 01:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Space Cadet Carl   Click Here to Email Space Cadet Carl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good post, Oly. I remember an auto-iris safety feature was added for Apollo 13 and 14. Unfortunately, the Apollo 14 camera suffered from a nasty blooming problem that Shepard and Mitchell either couldn't correct or they didn't have the time to correct it. It made the two of them look like ghosts on the surface.

The RCA rover camera for Apollo 15 was a big improvement and the computer enhanced video provided by John Lowry's Image Transform Company for Apollo 16 and 17 gave us stunningly sharp images.

Explorer1
Member

Posts: 202
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Registered: Apr 2019

posted 04-12-2020 01:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Explorer1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I noticed that the tv camera was already activated when Bean was moving the camera around. I was under the impression that he still had to unstow the camera and that during this time the camera was on.

Had the camera been switched off, I imagine the damage could have been prevented. Any idea why the camera was on?

Also, with the tv camera not working, I assume this means that the big S band antenna that Conrad struggled to get deployed was now not needed and essentially useless. Is this correct?

Colin Anderton
Member

Posts: 163
From: Great Britain
Registered: Jan 2005

posted 04-13-2020 08:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Colin Anderton   Click Here to Email Colin Anderton     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oly, I'm confused. If the TV camera used in the CM of Apollo 10 and Apollo 11 was then modified for use by Apollo 12 on the lunar surface, it couldn't also be used for the Apollo 12 CM television.

But the CM TV from Apollo 12 indicates they used the same camera as the CM TV from Apollo 11.

oly
Member

Posts: 999
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: Apr 2015

posted 04-13-2020 09:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for oly   Click Here to Email oly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I can only go but the information at hand and have found three sources that detail the same history of this camera.

As the Apollo 12 lunar surface TV camera was returned to Earth for investigation, it seems that the camera has logged may hours and miles in space.

Colin Anderton
Member

Posts: 163
From: Great Britain
Registered: Jan 2005

posted 04-13-2020 10:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Colin Anderton   Click Here to Email Colin Anderton     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Perhaps it was a typo, and they meant to say the Apollo 10 CM TV camera was adapted for Apollo 12's lunar surface operations.

But looking at the Apollo 12 TV broadcasts (which I did just recently) it seems to be the same camera used by the 11 crew. Why they did that I don't know, as the white dot gets a bit irritating after a while.

oly
Member

Posts: 999
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: Apr 2015

posted 04-13-2020 10:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for oly   Click Here to Email oly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The video interview posted above describes the Apollo 10 camera being re-flown on Apollo 11.

Fra Mauro
Member

Posts: 1639
From: Bethpage, N.Y.
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 04-13-2020 11:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fra Mauro   Click Here to Email Fra Mauro     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by oly:
It is easy to imagine that the camera did not have a lens cap due to engineering planning.
I remember seeing a lens caps during movies taken in the CM during either Apollo 8 or 7. A lens caps makes sense to prevent scratching during transit or setting it up. I see the point in not wanting to reattach it during lunar exploration.

oly
Member

Posts: 999
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: Apr 2015

posted 04-13-2020 09:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for oly   Click Here to Email oly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fra Mauro:
I remember seeing a lens caps during movies taken in the CM during either Apollo 8 or 7.
A point I commented on previously:
quote:
Originally posted by oly:
There are films showing astronauts playing with lens caps inside the command module in zero gravity, so lens caps were a part of the program.
The lunar surface color TV camera used on Apollo 12 was mounted outside the lunar module and use to show Conrad and Bean climbing down the lunar module ladder. A lens cap would have prevented the camera from working until someone climbed down and removed it.

Conrad states while on the lunar module porch that the handle to pull that releases the TV camera is stiff to operate, but does get the camera do deploy and goes on to struggle with the conveyor strap.

This is not the same TV camera carried inside the CM and used for the TV transmissions during the flight. Images from these cameras have shown astronauts playing with lens caps and I believe 1 transmission ends with a crew member fitting the cap while filming (evidence indicates that the tv camera used for Apollo 10 and 11 was then modified to be the Apollo 12 surface camera).

Dwight
Member

Posts: 578
From: Germany
Registered: Dec 2003

posted 04-21-2020 03:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dwight   Click Here to Email Dwight     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In depth answers to the questions posted here can be found in "Live TV From the Moon."

I interviewed John Lowrence and Sam Russell from RCA, Stan Lebar from Westinghouse, and Max Engert from NASA regarding camera development used on Apollo.

The Apollo 12 mishap is fully investigated including photographs of tests conducted upon its return to Earth (courtesy of Stan Lebar), and several reactions from the general public regarding the breakdown of the camera.

Subsequent TV cameras had a special heat-absorbtion gauze plate over the pickup sensor of the camera which made them burn resistant. RCA employed a similar technique for the GCTA on the J missions. Several times during said missions, you can see the sun protection system kick in to avoid damage to the image sensor.

All times are CT (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | The Source for Space History & Artifacts

Copyright 2020 collectSPACE.com All rights reserved.


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.47a





advertisement